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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I am a transwoman, ask me anything.

408 replies

AriadneRose · 04/05/2018 10:08

I have been following what has been going on here and on twitter, and thought maybe it would be helpful to open a dialogue that is not reactionary or fueled by anger. So I am offering my own personal perspective as a transwoman, and am willing to answer any questions people might have, and I will try to answer them thoughtfully, respectfully and honestly.

Note: I did not create this thread to stir up trouble, I just feel open dialogue from both sides is necessary for us to move forward.

OP posts:
BeyondParody · 04/05/2018 10:10

Hello ariad.

Not meaning to be snarky or anything, but you do realise this has been done before, and there are already transwomen on mn?

YimminiYoudar · 04/05/2018 10:11

Hi Ariadne. Thank you for coming, and welcome.

Do have some Brew and Cake. I do have some questions but I'll let you get settled in first...

Original poster
AriadneRose · 04/05/2018 10:12

Not ever transwoman has the same experience, hence why I said it would be from my own personal experience.

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 04/05/2018 10:13

Well, I'm afraid I'm already angry! It seems to be my default state these days.
Welcome to mumsnet.

Have you read the writings of Miranda Yardley? What do you think of them?

QueenOfAccidentalDeathStares · 04/05/2018 10:13

whats your favourite biscuit?

(well you did say to ask you anything Wink)

MrPan · 04/05/2018 10:15

Well yes Ariadne - having a man who identifies as a woman with no 'history' on this particular site could be problematic.

and it's tricky to have 'open dialogue' with so much shit being flung around, and threats being issued.

Amalfimamma · 04/05/2018 10:15

@AriadneRose

Can you please define woman?

Original poster
AriadneRose · 04/05/2018 10:16

@QueenOfAccidentalDeathStares

I have been really digging the Asda White Chocolate Cookies and Cream biscuits, they are essentially white chocolate coated oreos, they are delicious!

@BarrackerBarmer

I am familiar with Miranda, but not overly so. I don't always agree with everything she says, but she is entitled to her opinions and her voice and experience is as valid as any other trans identifying person.

OP posts:
RedToothBrush · 04/05/2018 10:16

I just feel open dialogue from both sides is necessary for us to move forward.

What do you think is going wrong in how the two sides communicate? Where do you feel problems lie?

starfishsunrise · 04/05/2018 10:17

Ok, I posted this a few months ago. I’d like your opinion as I have never met a transgender person to the best of my knowledge

Hi

Name changed here.

A few months ago my son (15) was in an intense relationship with his first girlfriend. One day I got an accidental email from an account with a girls first name but the girlfriends surname. I assumed it was a relative of the girlfriend but no...my son used the opportunity to tell me it was his other identity and he wanted to be a girl.
We chatted for a bit and I told him I loved him but hoped it was a phase. He didn’t want to tell anyone else. The only ‘sign’ was he started to grow his hair. Everything carried on as normal. He never wanted to chat about it, didn’t want a GP appointment etc.
The girlfriend has since broken up with him. I was hopeful he could move on
Yesterday he left a letter for us all to read to say he wants to be a girl. My husband and older son have read it. We are ok about it. One of the phrases he used was he was jealous of female bodies.

But here is my issue. I just don’t think he is transgender. In the gap between him telling only me and telling everyone in the family I have read a lot. Nothing I have read about anyone else’s experiences seem remotely similar. He has no mental health issues, ( reading shows me depression or autism etc can feature in gender issues). Seems happy enough but quite private, lots of time on his computer.
My son has never shown any interest in anything traditionally female. He’s not a butch boy by any means, hates sport but then my husband is not a traditional character. No football or beer here! We could be seen as hippies by some. My son likes more traditional male things - machines, computers
( I totally know all things are for both sexes, I’m making generalisations for speed)
He still stands up to pee! I had found some girls underwear in his drawer. I assumed it was the girlfriends.
He also goes to an all boys school. He is in Year 11. His friends are boys and they play video games, watch films, eat pizza. The 6th form is mixed and non uniform. Changing schools not an option as the other girls school does not offer the engineering subjects he is determined to take.
There is a bit of phase in the girls school of transgender. He is friends with a few.

So that’s my brief outline. I wish I had been able to go ‘ oh, it all makes sense now’
I love him, I don’t mind if he’s gay or straight ( he said he still likes girls) I want him to be happy. But how could he hide all these feelings? Wouldn’t we all have had some sort of clue?

Cards on table : I don’t want him to change gender. Be gay, be straight, wear flamboyant clothes but don’t mess with your hormones or chop your body up.

UpstartCrow · 04/05/2018 10:17

Hi @AriadneRose
Are you concerned that the push for self ID (especially combined with the loss of the NHS) will mean people with gender dysphoria won't be able to access medical help or surgery?

Bi11yOneMate · 04/05/2018 10:17

I'll bite

What do you think a woman is?

Why do you want to become one? Is it the biology, the "trappings of femininity", or how people treat you?

When you encounter aggro do you put it down to your trans status, misogyny, or just that some people are arses?

tiktok · 04/05/2018 10:20

I'm not 'fuelled by anger' - just serious concerns.

But it's fine you are here :)

I'd like to ask you - thoughtfully, respectfully, honestly, just as you offer - what rights you feel you don't have as a transwoman? Given that we should all have the same rights to healthcare, education, employment, services in law....with the exception of some sex-based protections to ensure dignity, privacy and safety...do you feel you are missing some rights because of being trans?

Bi11yOneMate · 04/05/2018 10:21

Ooh good one tiktok

AssassinatedBeauty · 04/05/2018 10:21

I'd rephrase @Bi11yOneMate's question a little and say:

What is the definition of "woman"?

How do you know that you are a woman, according to this definition?

Tinkletinklelittlebat · 04/05/2018 10:23

How do you feel this debate can move forward Ariadne ? What do you feel would do it?

The thing is, a post like this appears quite regularly and while very well meant, the bottom line often turns out to be a belief that the concerns for women in self ID is based on MNetters not having been sufficiently educated, and that by answering their questions and addressing the gaps in their knowledge they will shift to a position of self ID being a great idea.

There are a number of regular MNetters who are trans and many people posting on FWR have trans friends and family, people here aren't concerned because of ignorance or lack of knowledge. My apologies if this sounds suspicious, but often 'moving the debate forward' actually turns out to mean not two way listening or equal interest from either side in better understand the others' feelings and issues, but educating MNetters into compliance.

Original poster
AriadneRose · 04/05/2018 10:23

@Amalfimamma

I believe, personally, that woman can be split into two definitions that overlap, the first being biological, although there is a little bit of a grey area there when it comes to intersex individuals, but generally it is a combination of primary and secondary sex characteristics, hormones and chromosomes. The second part of it is the more esoteric side of it, which is the mental aspect, the idea of feeling like a woman, as stupid as that may sound. In counselling, my counsellor would often play devils advocate and ask me 'what makes you a woman?' and it isn't an easy definition. I suppose it is a cognitive dissonance, a disconnect between what my brain expects me to be and what my body biologically is. That is the dysphoria. Sorry if my answer is rambling and nonsensical, but I am trying my best.

OP posts:
PaperTrain · 04/05/2018 10:23

I was about to write exactly what Assassinated Beauty has so would love to read your answers.

Bi11yOneMate · 04/05/2018 10:23

I am not angry either. Desperately worried about what influence my ASD children might encounter at school. Worried about vulnerable women in refuges and prisons.
I believe anyone can be who they want, wear what they want etc, right up until the point where it harms others.

BeyondParody · 04/05/2018 10:24

Okay, so long as you know and aren't coming at this from "oh those poor women on fwr have never spoken to a transperson, they must hate us cause they have never had the privilege of speaking to someone as nice as me. I must toddle along and educate them".
Cause

  1. We have spoken to, know and in some cases are trans
  2. Nobody hates anyone, unless they have done something to deserve that
  3. We don't need educating

So long as it's not that then, this thread will go swimmingly :)

I guess I have a question then. Do you think Liverpool will win on the 26th?

LaSqrrl · 04/05/2018 10:24

AriadneRose - are you a transsexual, or transgender?

Bi11yOneMate · 04/05/2018 10:26

So you believe there are two categories of women? Biological ones, and one that "feel like a woman". Because most women don't "feel like a woman". They just feel like themselves. Human. A person with individual likes and dislikes.

Baroquehavoc · 04/05/2018 10:26

"esoteric side". Hmm

Amalfimamma · 04/05/2018 10:27

@AriadneRose

You feel like a woman.

Can you please elaborate on what a woman feels like?

It's a genuine question because as a women I don't feel, I am and no one had ever answered that question.

Bi11yOneMate · 04/05/2018 10:27

And I have a trans sibling. Who unfortunately is one of the "professionally offended", sees insult and misgendering everywhere, internet TRA types. And likes to out women the women.