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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

I am a transwoman, ask me anything.

408 replies

AriadneRose · 04/05/2018 10:08

I have been following what has been going on here and on twitter, and thought maybe it would be helpful to open a dialogue that is not reactionary or fueled by anger. So I am offering my own personal perspective as a transwoman, and am willing to answer any questions people might have, and I will try to answer them thoughtfully, respectfully and honestly.

Note: I did not create this thread to stir up trouble, I just feel open dialogue from both sides is necessary for us to move forward.

OP posts:
BarrackerBarmer · 04/05/2018 10:27

Here's a couple of questions

What language can we use to make it crystal clear that I, as an adult human female have no commonality (regarding sex or 'gender' with someone like yourself (other than what I have with all men and women).

Can you see that you using a word that means 'adult human of the biological sex that produces ova' as your identity causes somewhat of a problem for those of us who fit that description?

NotTerfNorCis · 04/05/2018 10:29

Hi @AriadneRose, welcome to Mumsnet.

You just kind of answered my question, but I am confused about one thing in transactivism. The idea seems to be now that the body isn't an issue, it's all about innate gender identity. Do you agree that if someone is generally happy with their body, but feels drawn to the stereotypical behaviours and cultural associations of the other sex, then they are transgender and should be accepted as members of the opposite sex?

A second question - at what age did you start to feel that your body wasn't right? Have you ever tried to analyse how it all began?

FissionChips · 04/05/2018 10:30

Do you think that a person believing that a persons “transness” is a mental illness symptom is transphobic?
I see surgery etc as a medicine that can help alleviate the symptoms and that no one should be discriminated against (without good and sensible reason) for the medical treatment they require .
Would you, broadly speaking, count that as transphobic?

spontaneousgiventime · 04/05/2018 10:30

Not biting. Been bitten by one TIM not giving this one chance to bite me!

Bowlofbabelfish · 04/05/2018 10:30

Good morning.

I would like to echo tiktoks question on rights. Since transgender is already a protected category what extra rights are you seeking?

And secondly if those rights diminish or remove the rights of natal women or girls, (for example by removing sex based spaces or reducing safeguarding) how do you justify that?

Thirdly: do you accept the need for sex (not gender) segregated spaces in the areas defined by the exemptions to the equality act as being necessary for the safety of women and girls?

BarrackerBarmer · 04/05/2018 10:30

Actually OP - can I start again?

Can we start by finding common ground that we both agree on? Would you be up for that?

changeypants · 04/05/2018 10:31

Hi @AriadneRose
I agree open debate is needed in order for the situation to move forward. However that is being prevented from happening even here as trans activists are targeting this forum by either posting in bad faith; posting goading comments; posting genuinely transphobic comments in order to screen shot and take back to twitter; posting relentlessly without hearing other POV in order to wear people down; threatening mumsnet's advertisers; sharing personal information and attempting to doxx posters; and endlessly reporting posts which they don't agree with. (note i am talking about trans activists, not all trans women. and note i am not trying to imply this is what you are doing - i am taking your post in good faith)

whilst you are of course welcome here, i believe the best thing you could do would be to attend a Women's Place Uk meeting where women and trans women speak and there is a Q and A afterwards. if you could also use your influence to ask trans activists who speak in your name to cease the threatening and violent behaviour and intimidation that seeks to prevent these open, respectful meetings from even taking place, that too would be great.

NotTerfNorCis · 04/05/2018 10:32

I think AriadneRose is one of the old school 'trapped in the wrong body' types. I find that easier to understand than 'trapped in the wrong gender'.

TrumpTrump · 04/05/2018 10:32

At what age did you know that you identified as a female?

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 04/05/2018 10:33

I believe, personally, that woman can be split into two definitions that overlap

This is something I've heard said before - can you describe this overlap? Can you help me figure out where my being a woman overlaps with yours but doesn't overlap with (for instance) my son or partner who are both male?

I'm a programmer, I can't help but analyse how I would code this - how would I code the group 'woman' to include you and me, but not DP or DS?

BeyondParody · 04/05/2018 10:34

There's still no shortage of transsexual people doing AMAs on FWR though, notterf. Tbh a transgender AMA would be more of a novelty Grin

DisturblinglyOrangeScrambleEgg · 04/05/2018 10:34

Sorry - I missed a bit:

Because my suspicion is that there is no overlap - that we're in an 'OR' situation. ie, two disparate groups who both want to use the same word.

DairyisClosed · 04/05/2018 10:35

Here is something that has been playing on my mind for a while. Two questions:

Do you actually care if some people don't think that trans women are women provided that they arent trying to force their view on you/impacting you in some other way?

Does it actually bother you if people misgender you (beyond the usual irritation at people being rude)?

schrodingerstwat · 04/05/2018 10:36

@AriadneRose

I believe 100% transwomen are women. I absolutely oppose anyone who misgenders you or questions whether you are a woman or not. Welcome to the Sisterhood Flowers

BeyondParody · 04/05/2018 10:36

Disturb, I guess you have 0 and 1 in sex and abcdefg in gender
Some people who are 0 may "feel they are a 1", but letters never fit into the numbered definition.

ShotsFired · 04/05/2018 10:37

@AriadneRose The second part of it is the more esoteric side of it, which is the mental aspect, the idea of feeling like a woman, as stupid as that may sound. In counselling, my counsellor would often play devils advocate and ask me 'what makes you a woman?' and it isn't an easy definition. I suppose it is a cognitive dissonance, a disconnect between what my brain expects me to be and what my body biologically is. That is the dysphoria. Sorry if my answer is rambling and nonsensical, but I am trying my best.

OK, let's turn that on its head. How did you know you did NOT feel like a man? What if the feelings you had were/are just how it is?

And part 2 of that - if you are able to articulate how you knew you weren't 'man', how did you know that mean you are 'woman', as opposed to say "zorg"? (In the spirit of openness, I ask that from the position of "not man ≠ woman")

aaarrrggghhhh · 04/05/2018 10:38

Do you think you have a mental health condition? (i.e. gender dysphoria - forgive me, I don't have a detailed notion of the language around this as a health condition). If not, why not?

AnnUnderTheFryingPan · 04/05/2018 10:40

These threads are always interesting.

One of my concerns with Self-Id is that it will take away professional support. The cynic in me says it’s the Tories making NHS cuts, and will push people to seek help privately or overseas, without emotional support or support for their mental health.

Am I making this up? I haven’t seen anyone question this and I’m wondering why those who are very vocal about ‘trans rights’ aren’t using their voices to protect what they have, and build on it. Women have had to do this, and would be natural allies in the fight, but we’re being alienated.

Where’s the sense, and why isn’t more being done?

Bowlofbabelfish · 04/05/2018 10:40

I believe 100% transwomen are women

Do you believe humans can change sex?

LARLARLAND · 04/05/2018 10:40

Hi,

What's the worst thing somebody has said to you about you being transgender?

Step · 04/05/2018 10:41

OK..

I really don't get this.

I've seen posts that transsexuals want to be female. I sort of get that as if someone made me live a male life I'd be pretty furious.. Ok they are in the "wrong" body for their mind. Get that.. But then they don't want to change that body and make it totally female by castration and chopping their bits off. That's the bit I don't get, this half way house. And these are the people I'm also having trouble in understanding. Why should I accept these inbetweenies as women? They are not, they've decided it's not totally for them?
Moreover, surely (and correct me if I'm wrong here these people want to live as regular women. So why in goodness sake draw attention to yourself by entering sports where you clearly have an advantage due to anatomical biological birth. Why on earth would they want to disenfranchise natal women? It's simply not bloody fair.

MrPan · 04/05/2018 10:41

Schrodinger - is this 'belief' evidenced, or is it an act of faith?

SilverDoe · 04/05/2018 10:42

I think that opening up a dialogue is a sensible thing to do and I don't think you should be criticised for that :) I don't see the fact that others have done the same, or that similar AMAs exist on other platforms, as reason to dismiss somebody wanting to have a discussion.

Here is my question - I am quite naïve to a lot of the views that trans people supposedly have in regards to this overlap between self ID and infringement on women's rights. I'd love to hear what your opinion is on how representative the TRA narrative is of the actual trans community as a whole.

The main things I have in mind here in particular are the notion that MTF trans women should have access to gynaecological care etc, and of access to shared refuge spaces and prisons. Is this a genuine concern for trans people, or is it something that is misconstrued by women, or is it the voice of a loud but numerically insignificant minority?

I know you can't speak for everyone but I don't like to scour the internet for this information because it seems very extreme one way or the other, and I'm wondering if most or many trans people can empathise and even share the same concerns in terms of these proposed implications on the legalisation of self ID in this country.

JellySlice · 04/05/2018 10:42

I'll bite the elephant in the room:

Are you male?

LangCleg · 04/05/2018 10:42

Welcome to Mumsnet, OP.

How do you propose to help feminists further women's rights and avoid your personal identity from impinging upon them?

I believe your feelings are real. However, not feeling like a man does not make you a woman. Woman is not a catch-all category for non-men. I find the appropriation of the word woman a direct affront to my identity and existence - and I belong to a class that is also discriminated against and oppressed. So I would ask you not why you think your feelings make you a woman but what right you have to assert that?