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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Excellent article on the problem of transphobia

473 replies

crispbuttyfan · 30/04/2018 15:30

www.huckmagazine.com/perspectives/opinion-perspectives/mumsnet-transphobia-online/

"Regardless of intention, it seems to me that Mumsnet has allowed transphobia to become associated with their brand through their inaction. These boards have now become nothing short of echo chambers, spaces in which anti-trans rhetoric is continually employed with little objection."

The evidence is apparent throughout the feminism board.
Where lies are spread with abandon and the truth is slandered as 'gaslighting'.

OP posts:
JoyTheUnicorn · 30/04/2018 15:33

Truth like "some women have penises" you mean?

drspouse · 30/04/2018 15:33

Can you point me to this transphobia/anti-trans rhetoric/lies?

I've somehow failed to spot it.
Or maybe it's been posted by trolls and rightly removed by MNHQ?

Melamin · 30/04/2018 15:34

The problem with transphobia is that EVERYTHING is transphobic!

(Apart from talking about prams, that is Confused)

Bowlofbabelfish · 30/04/2018 15:35

Funnily enough, someone’s just posted the same article as an example of rather poor writing, hyperbole and inaccurate quoting.

And I have to say I agree with them.

Lies are indeed spread with abandon - by the TRA activists. Example: ‘calling for new section 28! Horror!’ ... and yet no one actually is, it was a sarky aside by a TRA supporter.

Debating the impact on the safety of women and girls is not transphobic. You can’t just sulk and pout that everyone who disagrees with you is phobic, like some totalitarian toddler.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/04/2018 15:37

Thanks for the link OP. I think that is an excellent article that should be widely shared. Hopefully people will follow all the links to transphobic posts, man Friday etc.

#peaktrans

Wanderabout · 30/04/2018 15:37

It is excellent in that it establishes that the writer labels anyone who doesn't share her beliefs as 'transphobic', thus rendering the term utterly irrelevant in a democratic debate.

InionEile · 30/04/2018 15:38

If women talking about the realities of inhabiting a biologically female body - birth, menstruation, fertility, infertility, conception, menopause and all the rest - is transphobic then, yes, MN is transphobic. And that’s why I love it.

Wanderabout · 30/04/2018 15:38

We're not transphobic we just don't agree with you

YessicaHaircut · 30/04/2018 15:38

Discussing our concerns regarding the erosion of women’s rights and threats to our safe spaces is NOT transphobia.
A belief that women and transwomen are different (not unequal, just different) is NOT transphobia.

Aeroflotgirl · 30/04/2018 15:40

Nobody is transphobic on here, everything is fact based. For example there is a distinction between trans man and women and biological men and women. Biological women don't have a penis, Transwomen do! Biological women feel their feelings and voices and genuine concerns, are being ignored and shouted down by Transactivists, calling them transphobic, if they dare voice any concerns or challenge ideologies. Any reasonable debate shoukd not be allowed as it is seen as transphobic. It's the transactivists way or no way.

averylongtimeasSpartacus · 30/04/2018 15:42

According to some, anything other than "trans women are women" and accepting "women can have a penis " is transphobic.

MrsTerryPratchett · 30/04/2018 15:43

If women talking about the realities of inhabiting a biologically female body - birth, menstruation, fertility, infertility, conception, menopause and all the rest - is transphobic then, yes, MN is transphobic.

This ^

If anyone can tell me how women can organise around the things that affect them without being called transphobic, I'd love to hear it. This is about WOMEN, not transpeople.

I want to talk about abortion, for example. I can't have an event that is just women with uteruses because that makes me a TERF. I can't include transwomen and talk about abortions because I'm not being careful to centre transwomen in feminism. And therefore transphobic. I can't talk about uteruses because it's triggering. It looks the same as silencing women and I don't understand how it isn't.

0phelia · 30/04/2018 15:44

"Mumsnet has failed to recognise a very basic principle: if your feminism doesn’t include trans women, it’s not feminism at all.... Trans rights are not up for debate"

Except that feminism shouldn't centre trans women and many many people agree with that because transwomen have their own unique issues different to women.

Why again are we hearing #Nodebate?
Trans rights are not up for debate...
What about women's rights to exist as a seperate class as men? WAWAG?

I very much suspect the be all and end all of these "trans rights" that are not up for debate, are for transwomen to be seen as exactly the same as women.
So why can't women debate this? Why can't we have a say?

drspouse · 30/04/2018 15:44

Apart from talking about prams
You forgot naice ham.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 30/04/2018 15:45

And pom bears!

LangCleg · 30/04/2018 15:49

We already have a thread on this article, crispbuttyfan.

A decent discussion has ensued on that thread and it would be great if we could keep it in one place.

Wanderabout · 30/04/2018 15:49

There are the occasional troll and personal comment that goes over the line as in all online forums.

There are in the world some people who are truly unpleasant and threatening to trans people I'm sure and that is not ok.

Talking about biology and women's rights is completely different and a big part of what mumsnet is for.

Acopyofacopy · 30/04/2018 15:49

I am still struggling to find my feet and/or opinion on the whole trans topic. I would like to lift some of the fog, as one of ds’ friends is now Tina instead of Tom and has started going to school in girls’ uniform... Confused

So, if boys can be girls and girls can be boys, why do we still have/need/want boys and girls?

I also do not understand what Tom thinks he can only have as Tina and not as Tom who likes stuff that girls like, too.

caperberries · 30/04/2018 15:52

"A belief that women and transwomen are different (not unequal, just different) is NOT transphobia"

So what is the trans activist response to this?

Wanderabout · 30/04/2018 15:53

"Mumsnet has failed to recognise a very basic principle: if your feminism doesn’t include trans women, it’s not feminism at all.... Trans rights are not up for debate"

In other words if you don't agree with the principle of Self-ID AND that a man literally becomes a woman if he says so, you are transphobic.

No wonder the author thinks mumsnet discussions are transphobic with that definition.

Bowlofbabelfish · 30/04/2018 15:54

if your feminism doesn’t include trans women, it’s not feminism at all.

Centre feminism around MEN OR I WILL SULK.

FloraFox · 30/04/2018 15:57

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

drspouse · 30/04/2018 16:04

Centre feminism around MEN OR I WILL SULK.

Yes, why would you think that being a woman all your life would mean you know anything about feminism/being a woman? Silly little women. Go back in the kitchen.

Trousersdontmakemeaman · 30/04/2018 16:09

The whole ideology collapses when you blow gently on it.

Anyway, it's a shame young Hannah thinks transphobic is a thing of any relevance and not just some ghastly pomo hysteria, but hey, mums are used to these tantrums.

busyboysmum · 30/04/2018 16:14

Do you think "penis beakers" would now be considered transphobic?

And yes we mums are well used to tantrums and gas lighting males.

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