Julie Burchill - I knew I was right...

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blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/i-knew-i-was-right/

“If only the trans-lobby had an iota of self-knowledge and respect towards women who have come by their consciousness through the long hard slog of growing up female rather than by the skill of the surgeon’s knife. And if only the likes of Mumsnet and the Guardian – who are belatedly taking on the trans-lobby – had had the nerve to be feminists five years ago.”

Ask her if she likes cats and what the fuck I should do with my Apple trees while you’re at it kittens

Maybe I should try asking just to see what she says...I won't, because why clutter up her inbox with messages from the outraged Holly's of the world, but I bet it would be hilarious.

Oh, go on. Do it. Double dare you with a cherry on top.

I agree with a lot of what JB says in this article but I don't agree with her that Mumsnet has changed its position since her article was written. Here's a thread from the time which I was on and a number of others who are still here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1664221-Women-are-being-censored-because-they-wish-to-discuss-the-politics-of-gender-I-say-NO-Who-wants-to-join-me?msgid=36803511

MNHQ didn't make any deletions on that thread. There are more gender critical posters now than there used to be hence more pressure from outside on MNHQ to shut it down. Julie Burchill wouldn't know that because I doubt she would ever deign to take notice of posters on MN.

"Dear Julie - do I exist? I always assumed I did, but then some random on Mumsnet informed me that you think I don't, because I shag both men and women. Thoughts?"

Our fear and hope is Julie Bindels too? , once the trans lobby has been defeated

the right wing media will turn on us Lesbians , and Gay men there is already talk in lesbian & Gay bars the next target is Lesbian and Gay men , reintroducing some form of Clause 28

that is something us old lesbians and gay men wont stand for !

She'll be like, go outside in just your socks and kick the pavement a few times. Did it hurt? Guess you do exist then.

Careful now you might argue yourself out of existence...

I’m reminded of the late great Douglas Adams...

“Oh dear,' says God, I hadn't thought of that,' and promptly disappears in a puff of logic.Oh, that was easy,' says Man, and for an encore goes on to prove that black is white and gets himself killed on the next zebra crossing.”

A number of posters on MN were initially very pro-TRA and have either gone or, in some cases, changed their positions and are now pro-woman. This itself completely negates the argument that GC feminists are like people who opposed gay rights and will be on the wrong side of history. Apart from the fact that many GC feminists were doing the work to achieve gay rights before these pipsqueaks were born no-one was ever initially in favour of gay rights and then on further thought and reflection decided they might be problematic. Many, many GC feminists started off either as TRA allies or with a "what does it matter / live and let live" approach. After discussing the implications and ideology behind it, they changed their minds.

When has that happened in any other "civil rights" movement?

I'm reminded of Douglas Adams an awful lot these days!

Gender kills women.

Yes, Douglas Adams, Terry Pratchett, Armando Ianucci, George Orwell - reminded of all of them very frequently. Strange times we're living in.

And this, from Alice Through the Looking Glass.

I have heard before that some lesbians don't like bisexuals because they think they are "playing at being lesbians" as some form of trendy activity - maybe it was Julie Bindel that I heard about.

I don't think that means that they believe bi-sexuals don't actually exist at all, just that they can't tell whether they're really bi-sexual or just "playing" at it - and if you get romantically involved with one who is playing at it (and I do know a couple of women who did "try it to see what it was like" and then decided it wasn't for them) you could get very hurt when they decide that actually it's not who they are after all.

I have a lesbian friend who got caught out like that - it was hurtful for her, she felt very used.

Oh my, what an article.

I really want to be her friend.

I love Julie Birchill. Ever since she wrote about music. And used to read her in the days when the guardian was a newspaper.

Happy happy times.

What has happened with LangCleg's post up there? Who's quoting from whom?

Julie loves cats

I well remember seeing that article of Burchill's, and agreeing with it, but not daring to say anything because she was being piled on by over 2000 people with very strong opinions.

Oops, ignore. I just changed my settings, thinking I'd arranged things so I'd be taken to the last 'read' post in a thread, and everything's gone arse-ways.

Liking this article also means that we all agree with Burchill's choice of wine, shoes, and loo brush, obviously
She has a loo brush? Burn the witch!

translesbianpositivity.tumblr.com/post/170520246550/the-tip-of-the-iceberg-please-add-to-this-list

For the PP asking for crimes by TIMs, here ya go.

subject to violence, largely due to prejudice from people like Bindel.

Is this a good time to mention the 100 Indian women and girls A DAY who are reporting being raped at the moment? Bearing in mind that that's just the number who actually have the courage to report it. (source)

I am not anti-trans rights, I am pro-women and girls. I refuse to accept that TRAs are the "winners" of the Oppression Charts, when girls are being raped and killed as a power play the world over.

Holly in what way is Julie Bindel responsible for homelessness, joblessness and violence against trans people?

Fucking hell, the amount of unwarranted abuse Julie Bindel gets is gobsmacking.

JB is fucking HERO. Or should I say SHERO

subject to violence, largely due to prejudice from people like Bindel.

No. Again you’re mixing up criticism with discrimination.

It’s not feminists and lesbians committing violent acts is it? Julie Bindel May criticise - she may have her opinions, as do I. But the general stance of the feminists I know is that transpeople should have a right to safety and freedom from discrimination, without affecting or removing the rights of others.

Again you are conflating criticism and opposition with violence/victimisation.

I can criticise you, you can criticise me. That’s fine. Write a whole op ed piece about it, that’s fine too. I can defend my opinions with facts and evidence. If you incite violence or commit violence against me that’s a whole different ballgame.

If you can find a single incidence of someone like Julie Burchill, or Julie Bindel, or indeed anyone on these boards inciting violence then I’d very much like to see it. What I could offer you in return is pages of violent threats from TRAs against women. The song the other day about smashing women’s teeth in with a brick or kerb stomping them. Endless, endless rape and death threats. And actual real life violence too. 60 year old women being punched at speakers corner.

If you have any evidence of a campaign of actual violence or threats from feminists to transpeople hen please do share it.

And note also that the ‘words are literal violence’ stance is bollocks.

Well said Yarnswift