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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Julie Burchill - I knew I was right...

180 replies

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 19/04/2018 11:08

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/i-knew-i-was-right/

“If only the trans-lobby had an iota of self-knowledge and respect towards women who have come by their consciousness through the long hard slog of growing up female rather than by the skill of the surgeon’s knife. And if only the likes of Mumsnet and the Guardian – who are belatedly taking on the trans-lobby – had had the nerve to be feminists five years ago.”

OP posts:
Yarnswift · 19/04/2018 12:40

A working class black transwoman will be treated more poorly than a working class white transwoman and both will be treated far worse than a so called 'working class woman' who writes for international newspapers

Victim laddering - the guardian is definitely your natural home. You’ll love it there.

Can you please elaborate on how many transwomen have been attacked physically by feminists this year? The murder rate of transwomen in the uk?

Then perhaps compare to the rate of murder of women by men in the uk and the number of TRAs who have threatened, assaulted and punched feminists this year?

Disagreeing with someone is not nasty. Only toddlers think that
Disagreeing with an ideology is not phobic or abusive

Attacking, discriminating against etc due to a protected condition is illegal and wrong. Disagreeing with someone, or criticising their ideology is not.

You would be wise to differentiate

AngryAttackKittens · 19/04/2018 12:40

Also, in theory, let's pretend Bindel genuinely believed I didn't/couldn't exist. So what? Am I actually going to puff out of existence like Tinkerbell?

LizzieSiddal · 19/04/2018 12:41

Name a sexual assault committed by a transwoman and I'll be against it.

Good for you, you’re willing to listen to evidence!

Does anyone have the link to the website listing, Trans women who’ve committed violent and sex crimes?

LangCleg · 19/04/2018 12:41

Julie Burchill - pissing people off since the NME in the 1970s. Plus ca change, plus c'est la meme chose.

I love this thread!

Yarnswift · 19/04/2018 12:42

Name a sexual assault committed by a transwoman and I'll be against it.

Good! How about convicted rapists self IDing to get into women’s prisons and access more victims?

LangCleg · 19/04/2018 12:43

Does anyone have the link

transcrimeuk.com/category/sexual-offences/

TerfAndSerf · 19/04/2018 12:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Yarnswift · 19/04/2018 12:45

Jesus, cleg.,,, look at the number of child victims... ☹️

LizzieSiddal · 19/04/2018 12:46

Thank you Lang for posting the link.

Have a good read Holly.

frogsoup · 19/04/2018 12:46

But quite apart from what bisexuality has got to do with the price of milk, you are talking about the wrong Julie, Holliebee! This is Julie BURCHELL not BINDEL we are talking about. Also, I'm quite, quite sure that Julie bindel doesn't think AngryAttackKittens literally doesn't exist. That word really does not mean what you think it means..

AnitaLovesVictor · 19/04/2018 12:46

Do I need to check her opinions on anything else? Her stance on early pruning of apple trees perhaps? Or if she likes cats?

Sorry, but that really made me laugh. Grin

Actually, thank you - I could do with a good laugh.

Yarnswift · 19/04/2018 12:48

Itvis intersting how much I’ve seen her vilified over the years (and I’m old enough to have been an NME regular..)

A woman who speaks their mind and cares not for offending seems to be a particular target. Far more than a man saying similar would be. ‘‘Twas ever thus I suppose. I certainly have had my fair of ‘ffs’ moments reading her over the years but on this, I agree wholeheartedly

frogsoup · 19/04/2018 12:48

Damn, cross-posted with a million others. You have to be quick off the mark on here Grin

AngryAttackKittens · 19/04/2018 12:50

Validate me, Julie! I'll literally die if you don't!

Not sure if that's retroactive? Does not being validated mean you never existed as a child either?

NoSquirrels · 19/04/2018 12:51

This is a very amusing Burchill vs Bindel Julie-off Grin

@HollyBee when you say

They also disproportionately homeless, jobless and subject to violence

what is the “disproportionately” referring to?

Melamin · 19/04/2018 12:53

Hi there.

On the subject of the thread, I can't get the two links to past threads on this topic to work. Can someone repost them?

LangCleg · 19/04/2018 12:54

Validate me, Julie! I'll literally die if you don't!

Can you imagine the response you'd likely get?!

Lord love Julie. She could start an argument in the proverbial empty room. Scored nul points on the female socialisation exam.

AngryAttackKittens · 19/04/2018 12:56

Lord love Julie. She could start an argument in the proverbial empty room. Scored nul points on the female socialisation exam.

(Fistbump of bolshy woman solidarity. Love her!)

Maybe I should try asking just to see what she says...I won't, because why clutter up her inbox with messages from the outraged Holly's of the world, but I bet it would be hilarious.

RosenbergW · 19/04/2018 12:56

I love Burchill's lack of shit-giving and I enjoy the way she plays with words and phrases. I also Love capital L Love the way she uses her sweetly pitched voice and (hardly ever heard in the media) Bristol accent to take the piss and say whatever she pleases with no filter attached.

I do like this article and especially this bit:
And if only the likes of Mumsnet and the Guardian – who are belatedly taking on the trans-lobby – had had the nerve to be feminists five years ago.

BUT I would also like to add that feminists (the radical kind, which is to say the unapologetically woman centred feminists) have been pointing all of this out for a lot longer than five years, and the lesbians among them have been doing it the longest. The Internet had a lively but thoughtful bunch of radical feminist blogs 10-15 years ago who applied a strong and intelligent analysis to the trans issue. Can you guess what happened to them, one by one? The trans lobby and the prostitution lobby has been targeting political women for a long time.

Between that time and this, Gallus Mag on Gendertrender has been an incredible source for proper, investigative journalism into all things trans and this ideology's impact on women. Is she employed and paid for her impeccable work? The women who find her blog invaluable give donations but frankly the fact she isn't more widely lauded for all that she has done in recording in clear language the trajectory and damage done by the trans movement shames the wider feminist movement. I note that she is a never acknowledged persona non grata by all the main gender critical writers, including Rebecca Reilly Cooper, Glosswitch, Sarah Ditum et Al, despite their work being a lighter derivative version of hers. No offence to them personally, but there is no way they aren't aware of her work and yet they never acknowledge it.

Which shows another contrast between those writers, and Gallus and those radical feminist writers and bloggers (and you can find several more on tumblr) - those women openly recognised and credited the women that came before them - Germaine Greer, Sheila Jeffreys, Andrea Dworkin, Mary Daly, for example.

As more women become aware of this issue, instead of dismissing these feminist writers as transphobes from the past, maybe we could view them as pioneers and valuable continuing sources of wisdom, and give them some credit for their work.

Gendertrender.wordpress.com

Add it to your bookmarks if you don't know it yet! And if you think you've peaked now, wait til you see her archives.

Teacuphiccup · 19/04/2018 13:00

Here is a link to the trans respect map where they document the murder of trans people.

It shows that there is a horrific amount of murders in South America which is obviously horrendous and it shows that since 2008 there has been 8 in the uk.
8 is obviously 8 too many and my sympathies to those involved.

However it is untrue to say that trans women are more at risk of being murdered in the uk than women.

I don’t want to be having this conversation, it’s ugly and I genuinely support making trans people’s lives better and creating more acceptance of gender non conforming people.

However it was you who brought it up, and it was brought up as a way to shut down the conversation. ‘You can’t say that, that’s kills people’
Well what does that do? It stops the conversation in the water and creates this black and white situation where you are an evil person if you even want to discuss how law changes might affect existing protections for women.

It’s manipulative and more than that it’s not true.
Statistically speaking you actually have less chance of being murdered in the uk if you transition.
Am I saying hate crime doesn’t happen? No of course not, and that’s awful and we should address that but don’t lie.

Teacuphiccup · 19/04/2018 13:01

Whoops a link would help

transrespect.org/en/map/trans-murder-monitoring/#

OohMavis · 19/04/2018 13:03

Trans people are people

Yes, we know. Human people. Deserving of human rights and decency and respect. What's your point?

So tired of being accused of loathing trans people and 'denying their humanity'. Really really sick of it.

AngryAttackKittens · 19/04/2018 13:05

Did she think we thought trans people were robots? I'm fairly sure robots don't actually need to use the toilet...

boatyardblues · 19/04/2018 13:05

Setting aside the serious topic of this thread, it is comedy gold - a TRA derailer who can’t even get their Julies straight. 😂 You guys have been admirably restrained in the circumstances.

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