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Original poster

Julie Burchill - I knew I was right...

180 replies

CircleSquareCircleSquare · 19/04/2018 11:08

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/04/i-knew-i-was-right/

“If only the trans-lobby had an iota of self-knowledge and respect towards women who have come by their consciousness through the long hard slog of growing up female rather than by the skill of the surgeon’s knife. And if only the likes of Mumsnet and the Guardian – who are belatedly taking on the trans-lobby – had had the nerve to be feminists five years ago.”

OP posts:
Springnowplease · 19/04/2018 12:21

Always enjoyed reading Julie, even when I don't agree with her. The more people of influence who see The Emperor is naked the better.

I once read a piece in which she advocated a cull of football hooligans and found it hard to disagree

NauticalDisaster · 19/04/2018 12:22

Shit, I hit peak TRA about 4 years with an article in the New Yorker that was mentioned on FWR; I hardly think FWR is a Joan-come-lately to standing up for girls and women.

Despite that, I do appreciate the article.

Weezol · 19/04/2018 12:24

I have enjoyed Julie Burchill's writing for years, whether we agree on the topic on not.

I am curious to know why Burchill thinks MN is belated in this? Surley she hasn't failed to do her research (again).

AngryAttackKittens · 19/04/2018 12:27

She may mean that Justine making a public statement about not being willing to back down is new.

Yarnswift · 19/04/2018 12:28

I'm not sure why you think being nasty to people who are on the bottom rung of society, and get murdered on a regular basis, is a virtue.

Can you expand on this please? Because I assume you mean transwomen. And as far as I’m aware they do NOT ‘get murdered on a regular basis’ - any facts and figures to back up your assertion? How many transwomen have been killed this year/last year?

Here are some other facts and figures:

  1. Two women a week on average are murdered by partners
  2. As of April 04 this year FIFTY people have been stabbed and killed in London - predominantly young working class people and predominantly from ethnic minority backgrounds.

If you want to play victim laddering, the guardian is the rag for you, but you can’t possibly argue that transwomen are treated worse than innder city poor teens, or working class women, or black women, or a number of other groups.

KatherinaMinola · 19/04/2018 12:30

Here's a 2013 thread about JB's original article. The thread was started by a trans poster and was critical of JB, but there's a lot of support for JB's view too:
Julie Burchill went too far in this article

ScarlettSahara · 19/04/2018 12:31

Interesting article OP & thanks for the link. I confess to having been naive on this issue thinking “live & let live”. My own feeling is that it is a situation we have sleep-walked into by virtue of not wishing to offend any minority group at all costs. I am all for trans rights but not at the expense of the rights of any other group least of all those who are vulnerable.
Agree with No user name for me. Why should people with the male appendage be allowed access to women’s spaces/events? The rights of the few can be taken too far.

HollyBee1 · 19/04/2018 12:32

"I'm bisexual and feel fairly confident that Julie and I would get along fine, on account of my accepting that just because I'm attracted to people of both sexes that doesn't mean that lesbians have to be."

That's not her problem with bisexual people.

Direct quote:

In 2012 Bindel described female bisexuality as a "fashionable trend" caused by "sexual hedonism", and broached the question of whether bisexuality even exists: "[B]isexuality is sold to heterosexual women as some type of recreational activity far from their 'natural home' of straight sex. It is seen as 'temporary lesbianism'"—having a girlfriend, for a straight woman, is like having "the latest Prada handbag".[83]

She thinks you literally don't exist.

KatherinaMinola · 19/04/2018 12:33

Julie BURCHILL is actually bisexual btw...

AngryAttackKittens · 19/04/2018 12:33

Nah, she thinks that there was a moment in time when it was trendy to pretend to be bisexual (but only for women). Actually there's been more than one cultural moment like that in my lifetime.

Try again!

HollyBee1 · 19/04/2018 12:34

Woah. As for the 'women get murdered too' thing - yes of course. That doesn't change the fact that transwomen and transmen are often murdered. They also disproportionately homeless, jobless and subject to violence, largely due to prejudice from people like Bindel.

You lot are the only ones playing the ladder game.

HollyBee1 · 19/04/2018 12:35

"nnder city poor teens, or working class women, or black women, or a number of other groups."

Well yeah, they can be. A working class black transwoman will be treated more poorly than a working class white transwoman and both will be treated far worse than a so called 'working class woman' who writes for international newspapers.

AngryAttackKittens · 19/04/2018 12:36

Pretty sure that punters in Brazil aren't murdering trans women who work as prostitutes because they're massive fans of Julie Bindel's writing, Holly.

Yarnswift · 19/04/2018 12:36

I dont agree with her on bisexuality.

Right that’s sorted! Do I need to check her opinions on anything else? Her stance on early pruning of apple trees perhaps? Or if she likes cats? Because of course if we don’t agree EXACTLY on every issue ever I will have to dissolve into frothing hatred - I think that’s how it works right?

Or do we , shockingly, accept that we can vocally disagree with someone on some stuff and still find one of their opinions valid? My friend who is an evangelical Christian, does one of us need to convert the other before we next go out for a coffee and a natter? My aunt who is pro brexit, am I allowed to speak to her?

LizzieSiddal · 19/04/2018 12:36

Hollie you are quoting a completely different person to the subject of this thread!

whoaml · 19/04/2018 12:36

@HollyBee1 Why do you keep going on about Bindel when the article is written by Burchill?

KatherinaMinola · 19/04/2018 12:37

Another thread from the time (2013) regarding Moore and Burchill:
Women are being censored, I say NO

AngryAttackKittens · 19/04/2018 12:37

I mean, if she hates cats we might need to have words about that.

HollyBee1 · 19/04/2018 12:37

"As for your last if you want to welcome people with penis(es?) Peni? into places where women should be protected from them eg shelters"

Name a sexual assault committed by a transwoman and I'll be against it.

BarrackerBarmer · 19/04/2018 12:38

And this is where TRAs get confused about the meaning of words: eg 'exist'

Julie, being a rational person, accepts the existence of people, you see.
That she may have opinions on the innateness of sexual preferences is neither here nor there.

Do you understand how disagreement works?
People are not obliged to validate other people's feelings

Even if Julie Bindel does think a sexuality is culturally influenced........so what?

That you think this makes her into a homophobe just makes you sound unhinged

LangCleg · 19/04/2018 12:38

Holly, mate, at least get your TERFs straight!

chirpyburbycheapsheep · 19/04/2018 12:38

Hollie you are quoting a completely different person to the subject of this thread!

She is referring to a part of the article by Burchill that refers to her friend Julie Bindal.

Sarkyharky · 19/04/2018 12:38

She doesn't hate cats!

LifelongVaginaOwner · 19/04/2018 12:39

Name a sexual assault committed by a transwoman and I'll be against it.

How magnanimous

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