Boys in Guides is wrong - letter in Sunday Times today

[CapnHaddock]

Fabulous! Thanks to Agnes and DrNic: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/allowing-boys-to-be-guides-is-wrong-v0dngnvjp?shareToken=a17a43f649f1ebc0c60077f356240fd0

Brilliant.

I second that: Brilliant!

I wonder where all the trans children should go? Not that there are that many of them, so I don't think there would ever be a trans girl guides or a trans scouts. It seems a shame that "common sense" doesn't prevail and special areas for them to sleep and wash because I'm sure they'd feel confused and different and embarrassed because of their bodies too and would prefer some kind of segregation - and to protect them from accusations of sexual abuse?

But girls have been in the boy scouts for years.

sapphireflower, there are lots of activities and groups that are not segregated by sex.

Brava

That is a great letter.

I see the thread has an early start with "but what about the boys?" Either the Guides is for a single sex or it is not. If it's not then this change will need to be made openly and not in gaslight-y kind of way.

Ostracise them, Havoc?

www.alternet.org/culture/social-death-penalty-why-being-ostracized-hurts-even-more-bullying

Is that the only possible way forward?

Great letter. Proud to have my real name on it.

Sapphire

They're not being ostracised - single sex spaces are good for girls. Keeping them single sex is ostracising anybody- you can't ostracise 48% of the population - that's not how it works.

Boys no they can't join. The Guides and Brownies because they're single sex. They can however join the Scouts.

How is joining club and activities full of boys and girls ostracising them?

Sorry - terrible typing there!

Should be:

Boys know they can't join the Guides & Brownies.

Thank you for the share token. Fantastic, very important letter. Thank you to those who organised it.

I wonder where all the trans children should go?

Do you mean the male children who identify as trans? Because the current guidelines say female young people with a trans identity should be encouraged to leave Guides. We feminists are saying they should stay. That's one of the many reasons we consider the new guidelines sexist - budge up for males with a feminine identity; wave goodbye to the females with a masculine identity.

Great letter. Thank you.

Very proud to have put my name to this. Thank you and well done everyone.

Wonderful letter, short, sharp, shows the lunacy - and fucking cheek - of the current guidelines. So busy waving their virtue around that girls and their parents have ceased to matter.

The rush to warm and fuzzy and inclusive is willing to trample anyone in its path.

Great letter. Thank you for sharing it.

I wonder where all the trans children should go?

Whataboutery.

This is about natal girls. Can we not ever have a conversation purely about girls? Why do we have to put the needs or wants of everyone else in the world before those of women and girls?

Well put, Juells.

Girl Guides should be including girls who identify as trans, as they are natal females. The fact that they are expected to be "managed out" for not identifying as girls, shows that GG are being transexclusionary but in the opposite direction. GG should remain an organisation that encompasses the full spectrum of gender identities, within one sex - female. GG needs to remain single sex, not single gender.

Of the 100,000 volunteers in Guiding a paltry 220 people signed the letter who claimed to have some involvement in Guiding of whom a meagre 12 are current leaders. This demonstrates just how fringe these anti trans rights views are within Guiding, the wider British public and the UK Media led by the Times.

Theskyisgrey

Theskyisgrey These are just the people who feel able to have their real names attached, it doesn't include all those women who are worried about the violent and bullying actions of TRA's.

Theskyisgrey, in this current climate lots of people are worried about signing things or having their name published. Why is that? Anything to do with possible violence or retaliation from TRAs maybe? And most if the British public have no idea yet this is happening. But they're not fools: when they do find out they know it's wrong too.