Boys in Guides is wrong - letter in Sunday Times today

[CapnHaddock]

Fabulous! Thanks to Agnes and DrNic: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/allowing-boys-to-be-guides-is-wrong-v0dngnvjp?shareToken=a17a43f649f1ebc0c60077f356240fd0

We are back to the same old same old, penis is female, vagina is male, if that's what the owner says it is. In gender fluid or expression this can change back and forth any time at will along with the facilities you are entitled to use.

Oh yes that was pointed out before!

Sorry -

Point still stand with a 17yo TG and a 14yo girl.

How is it possible to identify as male and remain in GG when they clearly state that you have to "identify as female" in order to be a member?

What is the point of a condition of membership if you can be a member without the condition?

It is no longer a condition, surely?

So why are they saying that it is?

I've been wondering how to engage with my MP and council candidates most effectively and non-confrontationally.

That letter is perfect. I shall send it to them, saying that I share the concerns raised - and where do they stand on this issue that affects many local girls and their parents who are your constituents.

Might focus a few minds.

This policy was written by trans lobbying organisations. Given their stance is that transboys are boys and transgirls are girls, then of course transboys aren't welcome. Guides are for anyone who identifies as a girl. Not for anyone who identifies as a boy.

Anyway, it is a great letter, Agnes.

Thank you for all your work.

Membership of Girlguiding is decided based on gender identity. This is understood in terms of the way a person self-identifies their gender identity – a person’s inner sense of self.

Barking.

'gently encouraging' young girls to fuck off is also barking.

I'm a parent and on the list as signed. I want to protect my daughter, I want to provide her with a safe space to develop and grow away from gender stereotypes that surround her everywhere else. She's a rainbow right now but I may be finding somewhere else for her before she's due to move to brownies. I already decided she is doing no overnights due to this policy especially as many they do are joint ones with other troops I don't know. I'm also an ex leader and was looking at returning to the role but won't be now.

thank you for giving me a voice

On a side note, I see TRAs are circulating this parody letter about Girl Guiding. Interesting how they refer to GC feminists as 'women suffering from hysteria'. Seems to be a theme with misogynistic men, MRAs too.

Ophelia I made a reasonable and inoffensive comment on that blog and -surprise surprise! it hasnt been published. I wonder how many other comments have been witheld so they can all believe in the alt-right radicalisation of the bigots on mumsnet without having to read something sensible.

I’m on the list of signatories under my actual full name.

I don’t give a toss about being outed - I’m way too old to be scared of this bullshit

"Scientific evidence shows that pie [sic] squared once removed was first devised by a man and therefore proves that all theories are misogynistic conspiracies by the patriarchy to oppress women"

From the "side" that argues sex is a social construct... 😂

Of course they will have to encourage out girls who identify as boys. Else they jeopardise their 'single gender identity' protected status and will eventually be left with the ludicrous situation where they are comprised of boys and girls identifying as any and all genders but they will similarly be trying to refuse membership to boys and girls who don't incant the correct words. And there will be legal challenges from boys and girls who are refused membership whilst children with the exact same characteristics are already members.

And that is what happens when you attempt to make an invisible, unquantifiable, subjective and unverifiable belief into an objectively protected characteristic.

Well done! I'm also on the list of signatories on the website.

Sian Runner, have you seen the Lib Da distancing themselves from the Lib Dem LGBT twitter feed?

I support this letter and did not sign due to my professional role.

None of those posts say anything about compulsoray expulsion, lass

Really? They are all essentially focussing on the interpretation that trans boys will , eventually, be excluded.

I don't see those guidelines saying anything of the kind or the other interpretations being put on them here.

Is there any case of a guide leader pursuing a policy of not taking the starting point that gender non conforming girls are welcome to stay on in their units for as long as they want, or until the natural end of that section?

If so many of us have misunderstood then I imagine the Guides will be keen to correct us by putting out a clarifying statement.

If so many of us have misunderstood then I imagine the Guides will be keen to correct us by putting out a clarifying statement.

Nice

Pratchet - do you have a twitter link re Lib Dems?

Sian Runner, have you seen the Lib Da distancing themselves from the Lib Dem LGBT twitter feed?

@Pratchet, in the sense that if you complain about it, the Lib Dem Party's Pastoral Care Officer will email back saying that it (Lib Dem LGBT twitter) is nothing to do with the Lib Dem Party.

You have to laugh don't you!

I stopped taking someone seriously when she said that having a boy in a girls school wasn't going to be a problem because it wouldn't affect their Latin translations.

“On a side note, I see TRAs are circulating this parody letter about Girl Guiding. Interesting how they refer to GC feminists as 'women suffering from hysteria'. ”

The style of writing seems similar to that hot-off-the-press comment and link that was posted to the Times letter comments this morning.

Thanks - I didn't know that. That's actually really a significant distancing, though it would be braver for them to make it more generally known.

Hi - to the twitter feed?mobile.twitter.com/LGBTLD

I didn't know about the distancing until Sian told us just now today