Boys in Guides is wrong - letter in Sunday Times today

[CapnHaddock]

Fabulous! Thanks to Agnes and DrNic: www.thetimes.co.uk/article/allowing-boys-to-be-guides-is-wrong-v0dngnvjp?shareToken=a17a43f649f1ebc0c60077f356240fd0

LiB Dem twitter feed

That IS a brilliant letter. I'm getting quite surprised by how many people are going public with their real names now (in a good way).

"gender non conforming girls"...

Girls being the important word.

GG have stated that they accept anyone who self ID as a girl. That is about "internal" ID. Gender non conforming is more about dress and style. So, a gender non conforming girl, could be a child born male, who feels like A girl inside, and according to GG is therefore literally a girl. They would not have any concerns about that girl, or any other girl, not conforming to stereotype, so eg they might have short hair and wear clothes that are favoured by boys, that would be fine.

Oh, and hi Theskyisgrey

Nice to see you can read Twitter as well. Shame you can't think about it for yourself. Unless you're actually Susie of Helen, in which, no, you wouldn't be able to

How are the Lib Dem distancing themselves? I can’t see that from the link above? What have the LD said?

I’m proud to be heard via the list.

My real name's on the list as well.

If they come for me I shall come straight here

This demonstrates just how fringe these anti trans rights views are within Guiding, the wider British public and the UK

How is it anti trans to want to keep girls who are trans IN?

Fabulously worded letter, well done to all involved.

The letter is brilliant. I am one of many women, I'm sure, who didn't feel able to sign for safety reasons. Otherwise I definitely would have.

Everyone who has put their name to it is brave. Thank you

Theskyisgrey. Many women are concerned about this, but maybe too scared to say so. Your point is?

100% suppprt for the letter here and a massive thank you to everyone who has been working on this and to all those braver than me who put their names to it. While I haven't felt comfortable "going public" I have spoken to my mum and sister this weekend and they are in agreement. I think this is far from a minority viewpoint - it just hasn't hit the mainstream yet, but that is starting to change. In that respect I feel sad for the trans advocates who have not, until now, had to consider how changes that have focussed entirely in then and benefit them impact on others. #WAWAG all the way.

Fence and Laundry, if you'd like to sign, you can still add your name on the website. Don't worry about putting your full name - many people have signed using initials (J Smith/Jane S, etc) so you can add your support whilst still guarding your anonymity.

It makes me so sad to see all of the transphobia on here. I really thought that mumsnet wouldn’t be like this, but it puts me off ever coming on here. I can’t believe it’s taken such a hold of the forum

oneway if you have seen transphobia, please report it. It's against talk guidelines.

This is your friendly neighbourhood TGLWGH reminder. Services will now resume as normal.

There is no transphobia here. We are asking that gender non conforming girls, or girls who are considering transition, are supported to stay with the guiding movement, with their friends, for as long as they want.

We are asking that the needs of girls who are not trans are also considered in the policy.

We are all individuals who have taken hold of ourselves, that is possible you know?

And discussing human biology and logic and refuting gender identity politics which seeks to change the meaning of the word female isn't a phobia, it's fairly run of the mill everyday viewpoints TBH that most people have.

I'll help you report transphobia, onewaytraffic.

You point it out, I'll click the button.
Let's cover misogyny and homophobia also whilst we're at it.

And...let's go!

Misogony, yes let's report that too. Homophobia too.

I don't know how to reply directly to a post (new) but Oneway - it's not transphobia. It's about sex not gender. It specifically wants transmen to be welcomed in the guides. Because it's about space for the female sex. Nothing to do with gender or genderphobia.

Oneway, I can't speak for anyone else, but I only started paying attention to the 'trans' thread here because I'd already become seriously perturbed at what I was seeing in real life.

Doesn't any of it worry you? The sheer numbers of 'suddenly trans' teenagers, for instance?

I was delighted to see my name in the times this morning. I was on the AWS crowdfunder too. There are some disadvantages to working for the world's most old fashioned company, but an advantage is that the conversation if a TRA tried to out me would go like this:

TRA: Did you know that ReluctantCamper doesn't believe transwomen are women?
My Work: what's a transwoman? Hang on, are you saying some people believe they can change sex??

Also, we are not doing anything illegal or immoral. It's important to remember that.

But hey, let's call google and get them to shut down free speech. You know, like China does.