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Article on Maria Maclachlan Court case

235 replies

ReluctantCamper · 12/04/2018 21:21

Any one see this?

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/04/12/radical-feminist-warned-refer-transgender-defendant-assault/

The asked that preferred pronouns be used

Ms MacLachlan replied: "I'm used to thinking of this person who is a male as male."

OP posts:
AnitaLovesVictor · 13/04/2018 22:40

OMG. They're delusional.

War is Peace. Eurasia has always been at war with Eastasia. Men are women and women are men.

thebewilderness · 13/04/2018 22:42

So that would be the defiance disorder talking, eh?

CharlieParley · 13/04/2018 22:43

thebewilderness I follow the Secret Barrister on Twitter and that book is on my to-read list.

And I know that problem, too. But learn to love yourself. Perfect just as you are. Now, not when you're 90 (my mum sent me a video about this. Which I thought was twee. Now I can't stop thinking it's true).

PencilsInSpace · 13/04/2018 22:46

However, Judge Grant refused to grant Ms Maclachlan any compensation, saying: "Compensation would not be appropriate, particularly due to the unhelpful way in which the victim was present [at the protest] and the way she was filming. (from the Standard)

I'm extremely bothered if the judge said 'due to the unhelpful way in which the victim was present'.

This wasn't a protest.

A meeting had been arranged called 'We need to talk about gender'. It was originally supposed to be held at New Cross Learning and, as well as feminists, two people from Stonewall had agreed to speak.

Then Stonewall pulled out and New Cross Learning (a tiny, volunteer-led community organisation) were bombarded with the type of pressure we've recently become all too familiar with. So they understandably pulled out of hosting the meeting.

Like the rest of us who went, Maria was at Speakers Corner to find out the new venue for a meeting which had been forced to relocate at the last minute. Exactly the same as happened last night at the WPUK meeting.

The TRAs turning up and committing violence is being framed as a counter-demo. It wasn't a counter demo because we weren't there for a demo. We were there to find out where the meeting was.

I had no idea we were supposed to be being 'helpful' or who we were supposed to be 'helping'. We just wanted to go to a meeting to discuss the implications of proposed legal changes on the rights of women and girls.

Trumpdump · 13/04/2018 22:47

You'd think this court case would have taken the wolf down a peg or two... instead it's made them believe all kinds of new crap... Confused

I'm actually starting to feel sorry for the kid! Shock

AngryAttackKittens · 13/04/2018 22:48

I think this is a win in that it's now established in a British court that no, legally you cannot punch a woman in the head for disagreeing with you about how gender works.

The fact that a witness can be instructed to say thinks they don't believe to be true under oath is troubling and needs to be challenged. What if next time this comes up the person being thus instructed says "I understand, but unfortunately I don't agree that this person is female, and since I'm under oath I want to be sure that I don't say anything I believe to be untrue". And then see how the judge proceeds from there. Make it about the principle of telling what you believe to be a lie under oath rather than the concept of gender identity in the abstract.

thebewilderness · 13/04/2018 22:51

I think the transgender advocates consider it a win because they now know that they can assault women and will only be charged a fine.

CharlieParley · 13/04/2018 22:53

Was taken aback by the sentencing remarks. Now think they will be very useful in peaking a few people I know:

Violent offender (male) gets lesser sentence because victim of assault (female) refuses to speak the lie that offender is female.

Seems offender has not legally changed name, therefore cannot have got GRC which would legally convey status of female, i.e. offender is legally male. Seemingly, this is therefore an agent of the state punishing a victim for her legally protected belief (or disbelief as it were in gender identity.)

Yup. This will open a lot of eyes.

CharlieParley · 13/04/2018 23:00

thebewilderness I know it seems that way, but judges have sentencing guidelines. If you haven't got a criminal record, this is your first offence, and the victim was physically not permanently damaged, it's not an unusual sentence.

Just remember the perp now has a criminal record. That is serious stuff. Also, imagine what seems like quite a compulsion to behave in a certain way leads this perp to do something else which gets them reported to the police. Now he's got a record, it means more trouble. (I do actually think the perp needs therapy. But I think neither Maria nor him will get any.)

thebewilderness · 13/04/2018 23:05

I expect you are right, CharlieParley.
I have seen too many women dead at the hands of a man who was let off for violent assault time after time so I am prejudice against excusing or minimizing violent behavior.

OvaHere · 13/04/2018 23:06

Im sure I read this was a second offence. That may not be true though.

Were they on bail or bound over to keep the piece in anyway between arrest and trial? This is the same person that stalked and harassed the trade union woman on a picket line a few weeks back. There's video footage of that too.

Its unfortunate that wasn't taken in to account too though perhaps it's outside the scope of this trial.

TripleRainbow · 13/04/2018 23:06

Reading the FB comments WTGLWGH comes to mind. I don't agree with the judges comments but the correct verdict was reached.

Others may very understandably disagree as it's so incredibly frustrating , but for the sake of curious lurkers or people less informed about the issues, the distinction between aggressive law breakers and peaceful women who want to discuss potential implications for women and girls must be clear.

To get on their level could put some people off drawing any conclusions.

When I first decided to read about the trans issues it was the misogyny from people such as Owen Jones which really hit home that this was a women's rights issue and not anti-trans.

WATWAG.

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 14/04/2018 04:52

I too am disturbed by the sentencing remarks and how some facts seem to have been discarded and replaced with a narrative that seems partially written by TRAs.

It wasn't a demonstration
Maria wasn't being unhelpful, she was being harassed
TERF is not descriptive, it's a term of abuse (to quote twitter, a TERF is a witch, a non-compliant woman)
It seems that the perp is legally male yet allegedly the judge tried to force the victim to state the opposite
Acutely relevant online threats of violence by the perp have been dismissed and yet a very inane, harmless, irrelevant joke about hair has been taken into account.
IMO this was clearly a hate crime - misogyny. Which is not recognised in law.
The perp has shown no remorse - quite the opposite.

Did I leave something out?

Does anyone know if any major news outlets have reported this accurately?

AndhowcouldIeverrefuse · 14/04/2018 07:41

Thank you Igneococcus

Very happy to see this:
Transgender activists refer to women who disagree with them as “Terfs”

Igneococcus · 14/04/2018 07:48

Janice Turner's comment is excellent and mentions MN coming under pressure from activists.

Is another Times subscriber around that I can ask for a favour? I have an issue with how comments that I write there are displayed and I want to test that it has been fixed before I comment on Janice's article but I need someone to help with it. Won't take 5 minutes.

BrashCandicoot · 14/04/2018 07:54

I’m a subscriber Igneococcus

Igneococcus · 14/04/2018 07:55

I'll pm you brash

SophoclesTheFox · 14/04/2018 08:02

Janice is such a good writer.

Another calm, factual, rational piece to add to her stable of them. Thanks, Janice!

Am also very confused as to how being found guilty of assault is a victory Confused

AngryAttackKittens · 14/04/2018 08:21

I suppose if you were expecting to go to jail it's a victory...otherwise, no.

TurningWood · 14/04/2018 08:22

The victory was the delight that a Judge told Maria to refer to Wolf as she, then refused her compensation because she didn't comply.

SophoclesTheFox · 14/04/2018 08:28

Ah, I see.

So they're glossing over the guilty verdict and focusing on pushing the line that the trial "proved" in a court of law that TW is a woman?

Worrying. I can see how they could spin that. Utter disregard for the facts, of course, but then we'd expect no more.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 14/04/2018 08:43

It's a fucking pathetic indictment on the courts that in an instance of male violence against women the victim is forced to refer to her vicious attacker as 'she' and refused compensation because she refused to pander to him by supporting this particular vanity even though he held no formal state recognition as being 'female'. How can that be? Is this 'law'?

It's just another example of the patriarchal legal system telling women to get on their knees, suck and swallow, but besides that how can the judge demand this?

TurningWood · 14/04/2018 08:51

His receding hairline and balls gave him empathy for the fellow receding hairline and balls owner in the dock. He didn't like the woman who didn't do as the balls owners told her to do.