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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Lily Madigan - Twitter Update

269 replies

DarthArts · 07/04/2018 20:43

LM has changed the name of their twitter account, deleted all previous posting history and unblocked lots of users.

Has tweeted (in response to someone else) that non-one has spoken to them about online behaviour.

LM did get in a twitter spat after comparing trans struggles to racism and slavery and got a lot of previous supporters complaining. LM did issue a twitter apology about this then took a twitter break and has resurfaced with this new "clean" account.

@Madigan_lils

So not sure what's happened here.

I would hope maybe a degree of self reflection.

As ever, let's make sure any posts are not offensive please.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
11
Mummyoflittledragon · 07/04/2018 22:33

silvernut
Thanks for the links. I’m also blocked.

Darth
I cannot believe it will be a shift. Some people on here have stated what they said to be blocked by lily in the first place and it was pretty innocuous. Including my question. If lily really wanted to have a change of attitude, starting again and not blocking anyone would have been a good start.

Weezol · 07/04/2018 22:34

Jennifer James wasn't 'fawning'. She was accepting an apology with good grace. Thus displaying that when TGLWGH.

SirVixofVixHall · 07/04/2018 22:41

I don’t believe in “mis gendering” as it isn’t possible to change sex. I don’t think it is helpful to women to keep on pretending that men can become women. That is in part what has landed us in the mess we are currently in. For this reason I refuse to call anyone male “she”. I also think that trying to police how others talk about you when you are not there , as pronouns are usually used, is controlling in the extreme.

However, apart from the occasional slip up,( often accidental as I only use “she” for females in my daily life) I try to sidestep it to avoid getting deleted.

LizzieSiddal · 07/04/2018 22:42

I wonder if the latest tweet means they will be resigning from their position as “Womens’ Officer”.

LM was totally unsuited to the post anyway l, for many reasons and should never have been out in that position by Labour.

LizzieSiddal · 07/04/2018 22:44

I would never call LM “she” either, but you can get around that by using other terms.

SirVixofVixHall · 07/04/2018 22:44

The apology wasn’t to her though was it ? Maybe I was mistaken there ? I do think it came over as fawning, and I say that as someone with a huge amount of respect for JJ. I realise twitter is not the best medium for nuance though.

MyAuntyBadger · 07/04/2018 22:44

I wonder if 'taking a break from politics' was LM's decision, or the Labour Party's.

LapdanceShoeshine · 07/04/2018 22:46

The _lily account is back.

Includes these 2 Hmm

Nobody’s said anything? but suddenly there’s nothing more than 6 hours old? apart from retweets of 3 by Fox Fisher? Oh really?

Lily Madigan - Twitter Update
Lily Madigan - Twitter Update
SirVixofVixHall · 07/04/2018 22:47

Lizzie- yes. I try to avoid the pronoun completely . I do slip up though, out of habit, or annoyance. I’m going to try to be more aware, having read the TGLWGH thingy.

SirVixofVixHall · 07/04/2018 22:48

Interesting.

MyAuntyBadger · 07/04/2018 22:49

Wouldn't be the first lie I've seen on that twitter account.

Original poster
DarthArts · 07/04/2018 22:50

Look - I understand the frustrations around pronouns.

However you all need to look at this thread.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3215675-Dealing-with-inflammatory-posts-re-Trans-on-MN

MNHQ take a lot of flak for letting us speak freely on this issue.

It's clear we are at a tipping point, so if we want to continue enjoy the space MN provides to discuss this we need to do so respectfully.

OP posts:
Original poster
DarthArts · 07/04/2018 22:54

Latest message from MNHQ on the linked thread above:

KateMumsnet (MNHQ) Sat 07-Apr-18 22:15:36
Hi again all

Ach. The truth is, we're just not going to be able to describe the 'line' beyond which we'd consider a non-gender-critical poster to be goady - and tbh, the fact that you're focusing on that aspect of things makes us a bit worried that you've still not really understood the problem.

The bottom line is that we can't continue to host the debate if the tone is as antagonistic as it has been - it just confirms the prejudices of our critics and leaves us in an impossible position.

We think the acronym is brilliant and so is the idea of reminding one another not to rise - but there needs to be a general shift in the tone regardless of who else is on the threads, so that deletions are really, really rare. It is possible, because we see hundreds of extremely cogent expressions of a gender-critical position which don't go anywhere near crossing the line.

OP posts:
SirVixofVixHall · 07/04/2018 22:56

Yes Darth. I am extremely grateful for us having a space to discuss all feminist issues frankly on here. I feel really bothered by the pronoun thing though. Partly it feels like yet more male control, partly it feels like an extremely destructive lie. Both for women, and for trans people actually. I am going to go the way of sidestepping pronouns for the time being, although I understood that LM is not legally defined as a woman anyway ?

KatherinaMinola · 07/04/2018 22:59

Have MNHQ actually said that you can't call a TIM he/him?

Very much male control and gaslighting.

2rebecca · 07/04/2018 23:00

When did all this misgendering being a crime stuff start? It's only within the past year I've seen this in the media and when I first saw it it seemed to be an American thing on US student campuses, then Germaine Greer got no platformed for it and then I didn't see much about it until recently (but do live in an area where this isn't much of an issue). Is it because the transsexual world now encompasses so many folk with no intention of having hormones or surgery to look like the gender they want to be who get upset when people call them by the gender they appear to be?
Maybe I'm not even allowed to talk about when it all started.

NotTerfNorCis · 07/04/2018 23:01

Personally I think that pronouns should be a matter of political conscience. Yes it's impolite to use pronouns that someone has rejected, so maybe it's best not do it if they're on the thread with you, but I don't want to be coerced into endorsing a political position I don't agree with.

BoreOfWhabylon · 07/04/2018 23:01

LM refers to themself as a transwoman though SirVix

KatherinaMinola · 07/04/2018 23:02

Yes, it's Orwellian and very silly.

SirVixofVixHall · 07/04/2018 23:05

LM also refers to LM as a lesbian ..

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/04/2018 23:05

2Rebecca
I read on another thread that you can be fined thousands and thousands of US dollars for knowingly misgendering. I would have thought it only applied to people, who have legally transed. In any case it’s very confusing.

Mummyoflittledragon · 07/04/2018 23:06

Bore
But not legally though. Self id. And there is none in the uk. .

2rebecca · 07/04/2018 23:08

I thought it was Canada who brought in a law not the US and that's what Jordan Peterson campaigned against, the idea of the state compelling him to use a particular pronoun. Maybe the US already had one. Maybe it's an urban myth

NotTerfNorCis · 07/04/2018 23:10

Not using transgender pronouns could get you fined

'Employers and landlords who intentionally and consistently ignore using pronouns such as “ze/hir” to refer to transgender workers and tenants who request them — may be subject to fines as high as $250,000.'

TheBatPig · 07/04/2018 23:16

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