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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I WILL tell my daughter to moderate her behaviour...

156 replies

NotTakenUsername · 28/03/2018 18:07

Because this land does not protect her otherwise.
I will advise that she should not attend a party with multiple men who think nothing of referring to women as a group of sluts or texting a mate to ask if there is any chance of a threesome.
I will ask her to consider what she wears and the impression she might inadvertently give off. I will strongly advise that a VPL is far preferable to the things that could be insinuated if she chooses to go underwear free.
I will ask her to take the long walk home to avoid being alone in a dimly lit area. I will inconvenience myself daily to collect her if that is safer still.
I will warn her of the reputation she may find hard to shake, if she has too many sexual partners.
I will teach her that men lie to get what they want.
I don’t care if this makes me a shit feminist or worse still a chauvinist.
She is my daughter and I love her and I must protect her from this world that is so perversely weighted towards men at the expense of women.
I’m appalled, but not surprised.
I give up.

OP posts:
AnachronisticCorpse · 28/03/2018 18:10

I’m with you. It’s horrendous, and I don’t believe it’s ever the victim’s fault BUT I’m not prepared to sacrifice my daughter on the altar of my principles.

I also have two sons who I am doing my utmost to raise as men who’s genuinely like women.

The whole fucking world terrifies me right now.

AnachronisticCorpse · 28/03/2018 18:10

Scuse typos.

TrollTheRespawnJeremy · 28/03/2018 18:11

Caveat all of your reasoning with the fact that this is not really out of choice; but is about making good decisions in keeping with the current climate.

I'll be doing the same. I want my daughter to know what she has to do to live happily and safely but also how it SHOULD be.

conservativeuterus · 28/03/2018 18:11

It makes you a realist. And I will be doing the same with my daughter, and also making sure she has some form of self defence training.

Fishfingersandwichnocheese · 28/03/2018 18:12

Indeed. I do not have any DC but it is obvious that society will harm rather than protect women.

Original poster
NotTakenUsername · 28/03/2018 18:14

Oh thank god. I thought I was feeding myself to the lions but I’m so out. I can’t protect her with idealistisms. I wish I could. But I have to protect her.

I will make sure that she knows she shouldn’t have to do these things.

I’m also expecting. If I have a son I will promise to do my best to raise a really respectful and decent man.

OP posts:
SusanBunch · 28/03/2018 18:15

Agree. Women need to protect themselves now. The law will not help. Their rapists will get away with it. The whole system is getting worse, not better. We can help our friends by not leaving them alone in risky situations.
It’s all well and good saying we should be teaching men not to rape, but that is not exactly working is it? The press seems to do nothing but write about ‘false accusations’. Saw a tweet where someone said that the men in her nearly all-male office CHEERED when the verdict was announced on the radio. Men, more now than ever, know they can get away with it.

BertrandRussell · 28/03/2018 18:16

Those of us who are the parents of boys really need to step up. Sorry if people don’t want to hear this, but we do.

Original poster
NotTakenUsername · 28/03/2018 18:22

I’m not a mum of a boy, so I don’t want to personally weigh in too heavily on that. But I do like this inspirational photo.

I WILL tell my daughter to moderate her behaviour...
OP posts:
Spudlet · 28/03/2018 18:22

If I had a dd, I would no doubt teach her these things - with the caveat that she shouldn't need to know all this, that it's shit that she does, and that it's something that everyone should be trying to change. But that until things are better, she has to be able to take care of herself. But most importantly of all I would teach her that even if she does everything 'right' she may still end up being hurt - and that if that does happen, whatever the circumstances, it will categorically not be her fault.

As it is I have a DS, so I will be raising him to be the sort of man who is part of the solution (as will his father, who is a good example for him and of course just as responsible as me for raising him).

It's shit, but I firmly believe that you have to live in the world that we have, alongside fighting for something better.

formerbabe · 28/03/2018 18:23

I have a DD and a DS. I'll be teaching both how to keep themselves safe. I'd rather the onus was on others not to cause harm but I can't change society...all I can do is teach my own children to respect others and how to avoid those who may want to harm them.

RatRolyPoly · 28/03/2018 18:24

Oh wow, okay. Gosh, I completely understand why you would feel that way.

But I won't be teaching anything to my daughter that I won't be teaching to my son. Neither should be around men who think that way about women, because those are dangerous people to associate with. And arseholes. Underwear is optional, outfits are for the wearer. Fuck what people think, but be aware they may want to act on it; consider whether you care. I will tell them that neither should be walking home in dimly lit areas. I will pick them both up after the pub.

Perhaps that makes me the shit feminist, I don't know. I guess we're all just doing the best we can.

TheFallenMadonna · 28/03/2018 18:25

It needs to be about the boys. I have had countless arguments about secondary PSHE which emphasises "educating girls" but does little to address the casual misogyny of many teenage boys. Too many teachers just do not get it. It infuriates me.

BluePheasant · 28/03/2018 18:25

I agree OP. It’s one thing having feminist principles but the sad fact is that most of the world is yet to get catch up. The pessimist in me wonders if it ever will as some men are just innately misogynistic. There’s no way I would want my DD to risk her safety to make a point.

OuchLegoHurts · 28/03/2018 18:27

Absolutely. We really shouldn't have to, but the reality is that we do have to teach our girls how to stay safe.

We shouldn't have burglars but we still have to lock our doors.

TheFallenMadonna · 28/03/2018 18:27

I will certainly be advising my teenage DS that he should not be socialising with anyone who refers to girls or women as sluts.

elfycat · 28/03/2018 18:27

My DDs are learning karate and have been since before they were 5. Very heartened last week that DD1 (9) was being taught how to get out of a strong grip, how to not get pulled away and how to get out of an aggressive shove.

It's one part of the toolkit I hope to equip them with.

We had an internet issue a week ago where someone, having already asked and been told her age, asked her to join a chat room to talk about 'under wears'. The 9 year old was sat next to me and was 'errr Mum...' I typed an explanation about who I was and how I would be reporting him (which I did). I checked through her chat and she'd followed the give no identifying information rule and I congratulated her on her response. We further discussed internet safety with both her and my 7yo.

She was shaken though, and mentioned it at school to her friends who play the same game. One of the safeguarding teachers called me to check what had happened (and make sure that I did know) and was happy with how we deal with things. A little more trust left my children that day, and it's a shame that this is A GOOD THING.

Hate that I have to teach them how to be safe but not going to stop.

CharlieParley · 28/03/2018 18:29

@BertrandRussell I am very aware of my responsibility to teach my boys to respect women and their boundaries. And to be perfectly frank it is not that difficult to do. I've found the tea video very helpful re consent but mostly we talk about everything and anything in this area from relationships to porn to society's double standards to STDs to how much fun sex can be (they really hate this one).

This list is far from complete of course and I don't think we'll ever stop talking to the boys about the need to respect women's boundaries.

Original poster
NotTakenUsername · 28/03/2018 18:29

TheFallenMadonna Thank you. That is what we need. A movement of ‘mums of boys’ who rise up and instead of sharing photos of muddy jeans and naughty shenanigans make it a meme worthy stance to teach your son that misogyny is for assholes.

OP posts:
BertrandRussell · 28/03/2018 18:33

“I have a DD and a DS. I'll be teaching both how to keep themselves safe. I'd rather the onus was on others not to cause harm but I can't change society..”

Well, you can, actually. Those of us who are the parents of boys need to raise them differently because the way we’ve been doing it up to now is not working. That is how we change society.

formerbabe · 28/03/2018 18:36

I also think it's massively important to teach girls that they don't have to be polite or a people pleaser. So many women especially young women feel like they can't assert themselves because they have been socialised to be accomodating and nice and polite. I remember when i was 20 being bothered on the bus by this much older man. I actually remember feeling sorry for him and that I must be polite and feeling guilty because maybe he was lonely. Now I'm older...I'd view it so differently.

AssassinatedBeauty · 28/03/2018 18:37

Bertrand, could you outline what parents of boys need to do differently that I might not be doing now? I'd hope that I'd be raising them to be part of the solution, not part of the problem.

HomeTerf · 28/03/2018 18:41

I have daughters in their teens and twenties.

I get what you're saying OP, and I get why. The depressing thing is that I know my fun-loving, party-girl, nightclub-frequenting 19 year old won't listen to me saying any of that, because that's the thing about being 19 and fun-loving and all the rest of it. They live for the moment. It's never going to happen to them. Chill, mother, it's fine.

I totally sympathise with all the statements in your opening post, but I know that if I told my dd that she will get a reputation she'll find hard to shake if she has too many sexual partners, all that will happen is she'll stop sharing details of her life with me. The same with clothing - she won't change what she wears to fit my perception of what makes her safe. Me telling her to do that will only drive a wedge between us, and will very likely make it impossible for her to tell me if anything bad did happen to her.

I will draw her attention to the Ulster case. I'll express my utter disgust with the system and the way it treats young women. And I'll leave her to draw her own conclusions and decide for herself whether she needs to modify her behaviour.

TheDukesOfHazzard · 28/03/2018 18:43

The problem is that women and girls have always taken steps to "protect themselves" and men still find ways to rape them.

I think the real lesson here is not to report. With all that goes on in the UK I do wonder if this is a deliberate message.

PsychoPumpkin · 28/03/2018 18:43

I’m with you OP. I don’t want to have to teach my daughters to be fearful, but i’ll Teach my son how to be a decent human being so that other people’s daughters have nothing to fear from him.