Why are TIMs colonising womanhood when they hate us?

[SwearyG]

I am so angry right now that I don't think I'm going to make sense. TIMs hate us don't they - at least the TRA ones. They hate us. Everything we say logically and calmly and evidence based is just denied, minimised and ridiculed. It seems that we're collateral damage in the battle for them to appropriate womanhood. They don't care how many of us are raped, abused, assaulted, belittled, etc. As long as they get to set the agenda and rewrite the fucking world where nobody can exist without them being centred.

I have just listened to the World Service this morning where they took my points about dignity and consent and said I was being ridiculous and trans people, indeed men, aren't a threat to women and that it's the same as denying gay rights. I can't even come up with a coherent argument to that because it's so ludicrous.

Woman means something, I'm buggered if I'm giving it up without a fight and I'm also buggered if I'm going to pretend that male violence isn't a problem.

Why do they hate us?

They hate us cos they ain't us. It is jealousy. I know that sounds glib, but we have what they think they want - female biology.

They are men, and men aren't used to being told no. We're telling them no and it is enraging them.

Vagina envy

because they don't think we're fully human.

The fact the TIMs are always in interviews given the final say makes it clear: even subconsciously the media believes that its up to men to define what women are, judge if they have a sufficiently justifiable reason to be allowed to be concerned, and to decide what women may have and do.

That needs to be said on air.

Don't let it get you down, Sweary. This is getting bloody obvious now and people listening are going to start noticing the massive misogyny involved.

I wish I knew why men hate us, and these men in particular. They are the ones wreaking havoc across the planet in a myriads different ways, with women often mopping up the mess...yet WE are the hated ones??

Because we're not the porny sexualised version of womanhood they want us to be and we keep offensively reminding them of that fact.

And they don't want to be female - not really, if they were they'd be opressed on the basis of being female. They know that really, deep down.

Masquerading as a woman isn't enough to be taken seriously as one, they can't become female, so what option is left to them? To erase biological women. Change the very definition of 'woman', wedge themselves in so they're included, gaslight us, remove us, vilify us until we submit.

It's not going so well for them at the moment and women are waking up in their droves. Thanks in huge part to yours and Amy's work. So thank you

They don't all envy our bodies.

Most want the stereotypes, and for the stereotypes to mean 'woman' without explicitly admitting this out loud.
They need us and our biology to stay firmly handcuffed to the stereotypes, because what good is it if they get the word woman, and the stereotypes, but we're not attached to them? That would mean 'woman' really did mean male bodies in dresses.

We are the accessory that validates their fetish.
They want the stereotype.
They want the word.
They want it to be associated with us.

Womanhood is a duvet that doesn't stretch to cover both of us, but they're damned if we're allowed to leave the bed and expose them as thieves and interlopers.

Because they are jealous of the attention that women get because of their sexual agency. An agency they can never replicate. Hence the violence.

I'm on LoveSport Radio tonight (nope, never heard of them either) at 10.30 and am torn between calming down and going at it with both barrels. I am going to bring up how I've spoken on other shows and been belittled and then had TIMs given the final word. ManFriday is talking about women's safety and dignity, and having it mansplained as not a problem without the right of reply actually proves how much we need this movement.

All of this is so STUPID that it makes me angry and I’m sure I couldn’t do what you have to do - talk about it as if it’s a rational problem on radio as opposed to just screaming that it’s a big fat LIE.

You are doing such a fab job. Keep on keeping on.

I think this starts with the belief that men came first...and women are a "subset of" or "derived from" men.

See Adam and the rib.
Or the v mistaken belief that male foetus somehow deform into women in the womb.
Or the widely held view that penises are the be all and end all of sex despite clitoral biology being so much more sensitive /intense.

TRAs start from this point and move onward.

They hate us because they can't understand that we are completely separate entities from them, so they can't actually become us.

They hate us because we refuse to conform to the roles they dictate.
How can woman be all about male objectification and porn images, if actual real women refuse to do that??

Men hate women anyway.....those who want to be us even more so.

That sounds good Sweary!!!👍👍Spell it out to the feckers!!

I think they just have a fundamental belief in their own superiority. They have given us nominal rights, to vote and own property and have bank accounts, but underneath they still believe we are lesser. Those concessions have been bestowed from their generosity, in spite of our inferiority, and it makes them angry when we push for more and actually expect genuine equality. Don't we understand that we should be grateful?

Yes, they definitely think they are superior!! They must be thick as mince...can they not SEE the mess they have made of this world?? Dickheads.

On another thread just read that a new law in scotland around equalities act, has reworded gender transition as "becoming female".

Just FYI - they want us gone, "erased" as that trans person said "enjoy your erasure".

Dignity in sport is winning as a woman/girl and perhaps going through supposed gender barriers to get there. Women's football, rugby, cricket, golf - keep it English. Personally, I'd love a women's grand prix. It would knock out all the stereotypes about women drivers.

Sport is determined on biology. This should never be crossed. No way could I self identify as a male and hope to get into the England squad. Not even if I identified as 14 year old male. You could bring up the Iranian football team.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/iran/11903290/Eight-of-Irans-womens-football-team-are-men.html

Most of all good luck!

Have just broken my no mumsnet posting at work policy to say do it calm if you can Sweary . The stereotype of emotional women is so counter productive. Don't let people use it against you. You are doing an amazing job,

Am just about to listen to you on 5 live on the iPlayer.

@SwearyG

I'll be sure to listen tonight
www.lovesportradio.com

They don't hate women. They hate all women that aren't pornified sterotypes of femininity. That's why. They want to be thos women and they will put up with those women and they will tolerate women who aren't those women but who will still tell they how "hawt" they are.

They are just like any other man, they like women when we are agreeing with them. As soon as we disagree, or worse, say no to them, they start to hate.

Sweary - You are amazing
I know I would be inclined to laugh at them, but that's probably not helpful

Men need to be in women's safe spaces, because men are dangerous. That's what it boils down to, isn't it?

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime

3rd rule of misogyny: Women speaking for themselves are exclusionary and selfish

5th rule of misogyny: Women and feminism must be useful to men or they are worthless

8th rule of misogyny: Men are whatever men say they are and women are whatever men say they are

9th rule of misogyny: Men always know the 'real reasons' for everything women say and do

10th rule of misogyny: The worst thing about male violence is that it makes men look bad

11th rule of misogyny: Basic pattern recognition skills are cruel and evil when they hurt mens feelings

12th rule of misogyny: Whatever women suffer from, men suffer from more.

They hate us cos they ain't us.

Yep. They look in the mirror and want to see us but they see themselves instead. The resulting rage is because we know that's what they see when they look and we won't tell them otherwise.