Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Why are TIMs colonising womanhood when they hate us?

217 replies

SwearyG · 21/03/2018 13:35

I am so angry right now that I don't think I'm going to make sense. TIMs hate us don't they - at least the TRA ones. They hate us. Everything we say logically and calmly and evidence based is just denied, minimised and ridiculed. It seems that we're collateral damage in the battle for them to appropriate womanhood. They don't care how many of us are raped, abused, assaulted, belittled, etc. As long as they get to set the agenda and rewrite the fucking world where nobody can exist without them being centred.

I have just listened to the World Service this morning where they took my points about dignity and consent and said I was being ridiculous and trans people, indeed men, aren't a threat to women and that it's the same as denying gay rights. I can't even come up with a coherent argument to that because it's so ludicrous.

Woman means something, I'm buggered if I'm giving it up without a fight and I'm also buggered if I'm going to pretend that male violence isn't a problem.

Why do they hate us?

OP posts:
Datun · 21/03/2018 17:05

Is the radio station all about sport, @SwearyG?

Because, if so, it would be useful to give them examples of where men are slaying women.

The link below has some. It's not all. Fallon Fox is worth googling. The fighter who broke a woman's orbital bone.

Or Andrea Yearwood, a collegiate sportsman in America who competed against girls, won two state titles. He had no hormones, no surgery, nothing. Just self identified.

Where are all the transmen beating men in sport?

Testerone it's not the only marker.

gendertrender.wordpress.com/?s=Sports+&submit=Search

In terms of colonisation. These men are beta males. They think women are the gatekeepers to sex.

And if they identify as women, they will have queues of people wanting to have sex with them.

They need to keep their perception of women as hypersexualised and subordinate.

Straight talking, tough women telling them to fuck off doesn't fit the narrative.

Neither does the disadvantage and oppression that women face. It's no fun inhabiting their fantasy woman, when women keep reminding them about FGM.

Not only do they have no real clue about women's lives, they really don't want to know.

Hence the re-writing of sexual objectification as hot and aspirational. Not degrading and frightening, as it is in real life.

Minimising male violence is just another way of preserving their image of what it means to be a woman.

Yes, keep calm. Don't say anything you can't immediately back up. Have statistics at your fingertips. Be above reproach.

But, don't hold back with saying anything controversial. As long as you feel comfortable being able to back it up.

Your opinion will be considered worthless unless you can justify it up the wazoo.

Useful stuff:

NAMALT: The MeToo campaign ran to 11 million posts in under 24 hours, are you saying that these women were lying?

One in five women will experience sexual violence (rape crisis statistics).

When Target made their changing rooms gender neutral, voyeurism increased threefold.

'Not all men are predators': Men have to do very little to make women feel uncomfortable and intimidated. A smirk, a look. Especially if they have the right to do so when you or your daughters are in a state of undress.
My father in law is delightful, I don't want to get undressed in front of him. Neither would I expect other women to.

Why do we have sex segregation in the first place?

Not just safety, it's privacy and dignity.

Things that women do in bathrooms:

Buy and dispose of sanitary protection, wash out blood stained clothes, particularly underwear, rinse mooncups, have miscarriages (most miscarriages happen on the toilet), morning sickness, on the hour, every hour.

Some men get all icky if you talk about biology. But women's toilets are designed precisely for their biology. And the privacy aspect is paramount.

No woman wants to go through all that with a man standing there, particularly if he knows you can't say anything.

They probably won't understand the difference between self ID and equality law, so maybe not even worth going down that road.

Well done. You have absolutely brought this into the open. It's a snowboarding, as a result. Well done.

kalinkafoxtrot45 · 21/03/2018 17:12

I think they perceive themselves as failed men who want to perceive themselves as Alpha women. Can’t compete with men at sport, in politics, in the workplace, so they want to take the place of born women in these roles. And they hate anyone who holds a mirror up to the caricature of womanhood they represent, and call it like it is.

Minerva1234 · 21/03/2018 17:29

Fantastic points, Datun.

And re why they hate us - because they are male, they just. Don't. Get. It. They don't know the fear that a 5'3'' woman feels when threatened with a 6'2" man. They don't know how we are taught by society to doubt ourselves and apologise for speaking out. They don't know how we take on the mental load for everything around us. How we are the glue that holds everything together, no matter how thin we are stretched.

And because they don't get it, they think we are just being mean when we say, 'you are not like us'. They think we are keeping something from them that they want too.

If they knew what it was really like, I doubt they would be beating the door down.

SwearyG · 21/03/2018 17:39

Thank you all - I am noting down some of your thoughts and hope to get a few on air. I have a list of sports TIMs but I'm not sure that the radio station is all about sport as its website doesn't tell me much, but I have them so I can use them if needs be.

I like concentrating on the dignity/consent angle because it can't be responded to with a "prove it" response. Dignity isn't something we can show in statistics, it just is.

I seem to have settled on safety, privacy and dignity as a bit of a buzz phrase and will try to keep referring to that.

Now to stay up until 10 bloody 30!

OP posts:
terryleather · 21/03/2018 17:40

SwearyG

What you are doing is so important, it is just brilliant that after what feels like an age of silencing, some women like yourself are actually being allowed to speak.

One of the reasons I think it took me a while to fully peak trans was because although I had huge doubts about the trans narrative there was no dissent from it in the MSM or anywhere else that I came across so I believed myself to be guilty of wrongthink and just kept my mouth shut and didn't ask questions in case others became aware of my unacceptable beliefs.

Just having women standing up to this bs in public and questioning it allows those with doubts to realise that they're not alone and that others too can see this nonsense for what it is - hopefully that will help them to be braver and start speaking out and to realise that they're not terfnazibigots for knowing men cannot be women.

mirialis · 21/03/2018 17:51

Sweary - I'm abroad at the moment and will have to stay up even later to listen but am going to give it my best go as some small way of support.

Once again, much kudos to you.

Kneedeepinunicorns · 21/03/2018 17:59

Time for the really good coffee Sweary

Thank you so much for giving up your time and energy to speak out for this, you do a great job. Flowers

Redandorangeandyellow · 21/03/2018 18:08

Good luck SwearyG, youre doing a fantastic job.

OohMavis · 21/03/2018 18:29

I'll be in my jammies listening in. Rooting for you Sweary.

picklemepopcorn · 21/03/2018 18:29

Hope you are feeling the love, SwearyG! there's oodles of it coming your way!

WichBitchHarpyTerfThatsMe · 21/03/2018 18:43

Thank you for all you are doing Sweary. What massive ovaries of steel you have! Will be listening in and gunning for you tonight.

BMacklin · 21/03/2018 19:00

You're doing another radio show?! Yey! Good for you! Good luck!

Freshlylaidterf · 21/03/2018 19:01

ManFriday is talking about women's safety and dignity, and having it mansplained as not a problem without the right of reply actually proves how much we need this movement
Well said sweary Good luck for tonight get em told!

AreYouTerfEnough · 21/03/2018 19:10

Yes, thank you Sweary. I admire your guts. I’m autistic and I lose my temper easily and often can’t string a coherent sentence together, I wouldn’t be able to do what you’re doing. Thank you for all you’re doing.

tortelliniforever · 21/03/2018 19:22

Thank you Sweary!

Ritzsaltedcrackers · 21/03/2018 19:38

The thing I keep telling myself is that they can change policies and laws so that they are legally women. But what they cannot do, and this is the part that enrages them, is make people believe they are women. Everyone knows they are male. Lesbians know it, which is why they reject them as sexual partners. Straight men know they are male, and ditto. Everyone knows they are really men. And this makes them hate women, because deep down they KNOW themselves they are men and always will be.

UpstartCrow · 21/03/2018 20:10

I hope this is the right link;

www.lovesportradio.com/radioplayer/

you can listen online without an account or having to sign in, and its also on DAB.

Rapidonsetfrustration · 21/03/2018 20:36

I think a key point - and one which is rarely mentioned in these discussions - is that the evidence to date (only one major study, but a decent one) suggests that trans women retain a male pattern of criminality i.e. they commit violent and sexual crimes at the same rate as men.

So, fine if you want to have a conversation about whether single sex spaces should exist at all, but if someone agrees that they should (for the reasons everyone’s outlined), then it’s impossible to then argue that women are being unreasonable for not wanting to share safe spaces with trans women.

Good luck Sweary. Doing a fab job.

Kneedeepinunicorns · 21/03/2018 20:54

if someone agrees that they should (for the reasons everyone’s outlined), then it’s impossible to then argue that women are being unreasonable for not wanting to share safe spaces with trans women.

Particularly since the current legal situation is and has been successfully for years, that women will make allowances for the small number of gender dysphoric transsexual people in the population who use women's spaces, and both women and transsexual people in those spaces have every right to challenge a male bodied person making others uncomfortable or behaving inappropriately or for the owner of the building/business to remove them.

We're talking about a shift in the law from this position to any man at any time being able to access women's spaces and removing the right of women to challenge them. And the law will be fine with him identifying as non binary, gender fluid, or only identifying as a woman on the second Thursday morning in June between ten and eleven am. He has absolute right to just walk into those situations and women must accept his male anatomy and their loss of privacy and dignity because of........ what? What exactly?

How is this change positive?

If the law needs changing this radically to support trans people from the current situation of gate keeping, checks and balances, then it has to be accepted that essentially making the women's provision freely open to any man who feels like it and removing women's right to privacy is unacceptable. If things have to move to remove checks, balances and gatekeeping then they have to move to third and trans specific spaces.

And to prevent the next layer of silliness about oh but you can't have someone with a beard changing next to someone with breasts, that provision needs to be fully enclosed cubicles. (The next wail in the script is 'oh but those will be substandard provision compared to the standard provision... Confused - fine, we'll campaign for Laura Ashley wall paper and scented loo roll.)

Kneedeepinunicorns · 21/03/2018 20:59

Sorry, removing the right of anybody to challenge them exactly as Sweary and Amy are demonstrating. Even when it's obviously ridiculous, the staff and everyone else were silenced by Swim England's guidance.

Which is why the guidance - which was ahead of the law - has demonstrated how silly self ID truly is in practice UNLESS it means the provision of third spaces in all situations involving privacy and dignity.

SecretsRSecrets · 21/03/2018 21:00

Wow OP, you are doing amazing work!Flowers

I don't know if it works with how you're directing your talk, but I have noticed the Girl Guide stuff seems to reach people very quickly. Maybe mentioning the fact that it is now policy to not inform parents about either adult or child members that join and may be bio males. And how unhappy girls are the ones that must leave if they have an issue with the policy. All protection for the males.

Also I think the hate is just about control. For the TRAs (not transexuals), I think they are males that have been unable to control or possibly even acquire a gf, and so this is their big FO to women.

I agree with other pp, stay super duper calm and pleasant. If they give you a goady/difficult question, take your time before answering. Or even say 'what exactly do you mean by that question?' Don't answer anything that might be manipulative, just turn it back on them and get them to restate or explain what they're after.

Best of luck, you are so brave!!

Strigiformes · 21/03/2018 21:03

Good luck tonight SwearyG, i'll be tuning in at 10:30. I think that you are incredibly courageous to do this for all of us.

TerfingHell · 21/03/2018 21:15

Sweary. Have you seen what happened to Jean Hatchet, who does bike rides for women murdered by men?

Some TRA went on her Twitter and demanded she include transwomen, or it was all invalid and pointless and transphobic.

I'm sick of it all, too. But we have to fight on, or we've lost.

SwearyG · 21/03/2018 21:31

Yes I saw that Terfing. In spite of the fact that no TIMs had been mirdered by their partner/ex partner she was supposed to centre them. How does one do a ride for murdered women that includes not-murdered not-women?

OP posts:
busyboysmum · 21/03/2018 21:37

Sweary you are amazing and I will be cheering you on from my bed.

Swipe left for the next trending thread