What on earth is going to happen to women?

[Tinseltower]

I’m actually really worried. In the past couple of weeks I’ve seen Theresa May’s speech on how being transgender is not an illness, on how they will be given equal rights including access to vinerable women’s spaces. I’ve seen labour following suit, criticising Margaret Thatchers speech about homosexuality and likening it to the transgender movement, saying they won’t get it wrong. It’s not the same at all! What is going to happen to women in all this? It seems their rights will be pushed to one side and I’m actually rather worried. Can enough of us stand up to be heard?

There are multiple posts online of TIMs in women's changing rooms, toilets etc, showing that they have successfully gained access. I don't think they should be taking photos in places like that, but there you go.

There are also massive online communities of men who enjoy voyeurism, sharing pics of women and info on which places to get them, where to hide cameras etc

Worry about it if it ever does. so we’ll just wait until women are abused, then deal with the perpetrator, rather than preventing the risk? Is that what you’re suggesting, NameChanger22?

You still haven’t answered my question.

It will go through and everyone will cheer about nasty terf bigots.
Then the implications will start.
The equality act will be a mess because everyone can start to identify as what ever they want because the changes to gender ID will have set a precedent in that respect.
I could then say I not only identify as a man, which I am not, but also an elderly and/ or black man while I am at it.
This is no more ridiculous than saying I am a man and I may feel like being disabled sometimes as well in which case I will apply for a blue badge.
I think this will unravel quite quickly and there will be headlines akin to the bendy v. Straight banana ones in the newspapers re the EU.
As people look into it and see the treatments for kids, the weird “ladeez” suddenly appearing in public loos and the need for 250 new gender labels I am certain that the clothes will fall off eventually.
However it will take time because it is a bit complex and lots of people are not that bright or interested.
Unfortunately the victims of the eventual right wing backlash will be the gay community who have been lumped in with transactivists, genuine old school trans people, women who have had their spaces and rights invaded and children who have been on hormones and puberty blockers who won’t recover.
So basically all the people that the transactivists claim to be saving they are reallly going to hurt very badly while they put their suit back on and fade away.
Misogyny is bloody strong and clever and won’t go away without a fight.

NameChanger22 "Worry about it if it ever does."

sorry I have to add - this is a really backwards way of looking at it. It is much easier to oppose this before it becomes law than afterwards! The Bill is under discussion - now is the time to campaign, not afterwards!

It’s a pretty good idea PositivelyPERF, at least you’d have some protection from the:

‘She is only saying that happened because she’s a bigot that’s doesn’t want my penis in here!’

I’ve been using the men’s toilets for a while now (after joining I quickly saw that the honour system was no longer workable) but my friend asked me the other day if I’d go in with her if this insanity passes through. Obviously because of my size/ biological strength (that makes me sound a bit like a testy super hero 😂) she said she would feel safer.

It struck me as extremely ironic that women would be forced to rely on men to protect them in their own bloody bathrooms, from other men. Definitely not the direction society should be headed in.

And yes Riverside2 it’s almost like some people think women had separate spaces always and it’s really progressive to just get rid of them all! Women only just bloody got them relatively speaking!

Namechanger22 I have seen much better sea lions than you on these threads just saying😁

It will never be a hate crime to ask a man to leave the ladies toilets. It's never happened. It's not going to happen. I have no idea why you think it would.

But the perverted and abusive men out there don't need to go to such lengths as pretending to be a woman if they want to be perverted or abusive. They just do what they've always done - date or marry a woman.

You're right. I'm convinced. Men have trained as priests, doctors, nurses, teachers, social workers, health care assistants, sports coaches, support workers etc in order to gain access to vulnerable people. They prowl around streets on foot or in their car looking for a target to expose their penis too. They've spent months grooming teenage girls online. But you're absolutely right, abusing the self-ID system to walk in to women only spaces would be too much effort for them. I'm astonished I even considered it.

NameChanger seems more familiar with every determinedly willfully ignorant post they make.

Ooops I forgot NAMALT.

Xpost. Trans Identifying Male. Now that you know what TIM is, would you mind awfully answering my question. If women don’t want men (TIMs) in female spaces, but TIMs demand entrance, whose feelings should be prioritised?

Okay - Im frightened....

Surely Theresa May has NOT been spouting this in last 3 months... I thought Conservatives had gone rather quiet on it....and we have time to muster more support when consultation starts - this month isn't it??? or later?

I - bizarre as it seems - am resting my hopes on Conservatives and Daily Mail to realise/publicise that GRA is NOT a good idea....

What am I missing?

I still don't know what a TIM is.

NameChanger22 - how much do you know about this debate and do you have any comments on my post about the first Parliamentary debate?

OP please come back and tell us if we've missed a massive speech or if you're talking about the October one.....

But you're absolutely right, abusing the self-ID system to walk in to women only spaces would be too much effort for them. I'm astonished I even considered it. How could you think such a thing about men. They never abuse women. #MeToo

I have seen much better sea lions than you on these threads just saying Indeed

I'm not ignorant. This is all news to me. I don't spend that much time on Mumsnet. I glanced at one thread about changing rooms a while ago, read a few lines and decided it sounded like paranoia and hysteria. It seems like a few posters have let the whole idea run away with them and are now getting very worried about something that hasn't happened yet and probably won't happen.

Ask a "transwoman" to leave the women's toilets, you mean.

Gender reassignment is a protected characteristic, and transgender identity is covered by hate crime laws.

Telling a TIM or a man who claims to be a TIM to leave would fulfils the criteria for harassment due to gender reassignement / gender identity. You are stopping a person going about their business and using facilities, due to your perception of their gender.

In fact though TIMs are usually bigger than us, and they aren't going to leave, so I'm not sure where asking them to leave would even get us, except in a whole load of bother one way or another.

This is why there isn't more outrage, people think they are well informed, and trust those in authority to do the right thing.

I don't know why you're insulting me. I just don't see it as a problem yet. It isn't one yet.

‘She is only saying that happened because she’s a bigot that’s doesn’t want my penis in here!’

Yes, Truscum. I think if women ‘arm’ themselves with jacket cams, to be activated in times of risk, we won’t be long showing the difference between the old school transsexuals and the TRAs.

I've been in toilets where men were in there a few times (usually arguing with a woman) and the women did not like it but no-one asked them to leave.

What we did was hung around to check he didn't hurt her.

Namechanger please at least take this from this thread:

Men haven't had to dress up to be sex pests in the past, I don't think many are going to start now

Not a single one of them will have to ‘dress up’. There will be no dressing up. They can pop anywhere they like, any time they like, with no extra effort at all.

It will never be a hate crime to ask a man to leave the ladies toilets. It's never happened. It's not going to happen

Yes it will.

Because after these reforms, if that man says (note: just says no other proof required) that he is a woman then that will mean he has as much right as you do to that space.

Finito. No arguments. You couldn’t just say ‘but it’s obviously just a man trying his luck’. Nope, that would be you being a bigot.

He will be as genuine a woman as you, merely on his say so.

No one will be able to remove him. Not you, not other women, not the security guard, not the establishment, not the police.

No one.

I have never ever seen a transgender person in the women's toilets or changing rooms? Is it happening in another part of the country?

Namechanger i don't think many people on this thread are finding your views convincing.