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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

What on earth is going to happen to women?

330 replies

Tinseltower · 04/03/2018 17:06

I’m actually really worried. In the past couple of weeks I’ve seen Theresa May’s speech on how being transgender is not an illness, on how they will be given equal rights including access to vinerable women’s spaces. I’ve seen labour following suit, criticising Margaret Thatchers speech about homosexuality and likening it to the transgender movement, saying they won’t get it wrong. It’s not the same at all! What is going to happen to women in all this? It seems their rights will be pushed to one side and I’m actually rather worried. Can enough of us stand up to be heard?

OP posts:
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16
TitaniasCloset · 05/03/2018 11:42

If you have time have a quick scan of any post that starts of with why is Mumsnet transphobic and similar titles, if you find one where the op sticks around long enough to debate or answers questions you might win a prize!

SnibbleAgain · 05/03/2018 11:58

feminazi has been used for years, whenever feminists say anything that men don't like, which is pretty much all the time Smile

feminazis are responsible for #metoo which means that men aren't allowed to look at or ever speak to women, if they do they immediately have their whole lives destroyed, that kind of idea.

NameChanger22 · 05/03/2018 12:10

Sanderz - I'm the one they called a sea lion. I'm not a familiar poster. I've never commented on these threads before. I'm usually found on the brexit threads or the ones complaining about how crap men are. I am a feminist. Maybe I'm not the most clever person on here, but my IQ is a long way above average. I didn't have time to read everything or answer every question because I was busy helping my child with homework at the same time. I wasn't trying to derail the thread, I just asked a few very polite questions and was met with rudeness. I'm not a troll. I left the thread because I was tired and felt like I was being bullied. I'm not going to comment again on this thread because I don't like being bullied and I don't want to derail the precious conversation further. If you don't want to believe me then don't, people just believe what they want to believe anyway.

My advice to those who were calling me a sea lion (whatever that means) is that you need a new tactic. Being nasty to people never works. If you want people on your side with this, then be nicer, kinder human beings. Not everyone in the world is up to speed with this, most people have never even heard of it before and can't see what the problem is. You will just alienate people if you are belittling, untrusting of people's motives and unkind.

SwearyG · 05/03/2018 12:19

If you’re looking for a marginal seat then may I suggest the minister for women and equalities? Amber Rudd’s majority in Hastings is only 346. And she’s being very woolly on the subject.

FfsFrieda · 05/03/2018 12:48

In my opinion it’s not the fact the poster asked questions. I’ve seen plenty of quiestions asked in this board and a discussion ensues involving all parties, whether they agree or not.

What is very familiar to posters here is a style if posting.

Question after question asked with absolutely no indication that the poster in question has read any previous answers l. No evolution in the discussion, no discussion at all.

Just rounds of questions that aren’t even interconnected. It’s like they ask one question, don’t read what they want in the answers, so then switch to another question.

Non stop. Repeatedly. Until all previous discussion has halted as most posters try to figure out if it is someone genuine with poor reading comprehension or a ‘sea lion’.

You need to develop a sense of humour about it in the end to stop yourself going mad.

ElenOfTheWays · 05/03/2018 12:52

NameChanger22. I'm afraid I find it hard to believe you are genuine.

I was new to all this very recently. I had literally never heard of any of it. When I came across it, on the AIBU board first which led me here, I read. I read thread after thread after thread, I followed the many links to various articles and Twitter feeds etc from both sides of the debate, and I built up a picture of the situation. I did all this before I commented. I wanted to learn not derail the very interesting conversations going on.
I found that almost all my questions were already answered somehere on these boards.

Then I joined in. When I actually had an idea what it was all about. It didn't take me long either.

I'm still learning.

If you are genuinely interested, I suggest you do the same. But I don't think you are.

LassWiADelicateAir · 05/03/2018 12:59

If you’re looking for a marginal seat then may I suggest the minister for women and equalities? Amber Rudd’s majority in Hastings is only 346. And she’s being very woolly on the subject

You want to replace Conservative MP with a Labour MP? Labour is 100% committed. Conservatives have put it on the back burner.

As to what will happen? Nothing much. There will be some unfortunate cases but not this doomsday scenario.

SwearyG · 05/03/2018 13:08

No I want her to realise that ignoring women may lose her party seats and an election. As it's a cross party madness this needs to be targeted at both parties surely?

TheGoldenBough · 05/03/2018 13:29

NameChanger22. I'm afraid I find it hard to believe you are genuine.

Me too.

The difference is, NC is that, when people are genuinely unaware of something they ask a question. That question is answered, they reflect on it - however briefly and generally follow up with "hang on a minute... does that mean..?" before checking their understanding by applying that new information to situations they are more familiar with.

That gives other people the opportunity to say, "Yes, you're absolutely right..." or "It's not generally applied to that scenario, but yes it theory..." or whatever.

What people do when they are trying to understand something new and unfamiliar is that they ask questions around it and to deepen their understanding or to address anything they are still confused by.

What they don't do is repeatedly ask silly inane questions or make ridiculous points.

E.g. If men wander into the women's toilets in the shopping center, they will be told to leave by most of the women in there to get out.

Firstly, no women generally won't challenge a man who is somewhere he shouldn't be, or somewhere that makes them feel vulnerable, because women know that can be very bad for their health and wellbeing. Women, especially on their own, would be more likely to pretend they haven't noticed and hope he will leave them alone.

But that's all academic anyway because...

Secondly, under the new law women wouldn't be allowed to challenge the 'man' in the event that he self IDs as a woman and she would find herself in hot water legally.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/03/2018 13:36

Sorry Namechanger. I'm another who found 'talking' with you last night ^incredibly frustrating. Poster have ti work very hard to be that disingenuous.

You say hadn't got time (ever a few hours, ending quite late) to answer everyone's questions yet, whilst answering no ones questions you posed a few of your own, about terms that had already been defined, in this thread by polite and helpful posters like myself, and your persisted in saying that because you personally hadn't seen any of the behaviours being discussed and didn't believe that there was any 'threat.

Cue many posters, like myself, explaining more, giving links etc. And then you repeating that you hadn't seen it so it wasn't anything to be worried about... all ending with you insulting all the posters here and lolloping off with a flounce.

If you are genuine and you really do want to know what all this doom mongering is about please, start your own thread with specific questions. I for one will answer the seriously, sincerely and will continue to do so until/if you start to display the same attitude as you did last night.

Fool me twice, shame on me, as they say! But I am willing to be that fool, if you are sincere !

Jaxhog · 05/03/2018 13:39

Well, men won't be happy when the only women they meet out are uncut transwomen. By then it will be too late.

I find this all very depressing. Having spent a lot of time and energy trying to break down gender boundaries, this movement seems to want to put them back up with men on both sides.

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 05/03/2018 13:54

In these circumstances I would rather Amber Rudd in place than a Bromentum candidate. And I think AR has some sympathy with GC POV (from memory)

Titiana
Plus all the silly bitches on YouTube with their enlightening videos, why I'm not a feminist, why I hate feminism etc and the MRAs turn up to praise them and comment on the size of their tits.

  • that made me laugh, even with the very non feminist 'bitches' reference
AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 05/03/2018 13:59

Curious
It's alway the same. Derailing, obfuscation and evasion then feigned hurt at the 'bullying' when posters get ratty with it all. Because we women have to be nice. Always.

NAW.

CuriousaboutSamphire · 05/03/2018 14:52

Smile I get that, Puuurfect, oh do I get that?

However, I also get the concept "Give them enough rope"... but doubt that I will be taken up on the offer Grin

GlowngJacket · 05/03/2018 14:59

Bromentum gaslighting MPs in marginals should be targeted. What majority does Clive Lewis have?

How will we organise?

PositivelyPERF · 05/03/2018 15:12

then be nicer, kinder human beings silly women not being nice. Tut tut. ☹️

SwearyG · 05/03/2018 15:42

I'll give you that, Puuurfect - skim reading the thread I missed about wanting to keep the bromentum lot out. That said I do think there might be benefit in getting the tories to face up to what they've started and consult and kill this rather than leave it hanging. Putting it on hold isn't killing it dead.

Thegirlinthefireplace · 05/03/2018 17:37

A few weekends ago I had a long, unfortunately drink fuelled, argument with some hip kook aid drinkers on this subject. They weren’t for turning and the maireason was not understanding the situation or proposed changes. Exact examples: from one - that I’m confusing transvestites with transgender people who have GRS (I explained that transgender umbrella now covers both but was not believed). From her partner: that there is no need to worry about penises in women’s prison because “they would make sure that wouldnt happen”. Tried to explain that the proposals we were arguing about did exactly that but my opponent had blind faith that some mysterious “they” would step in and prevent it somehow even though the law allowed it.

I wish I had had that argument sober, I might have made more progress but c’est la vie.

Greensmurfterf · 05/03/2018 18:25

We must be rattling a few cages as I've noticed threads appearing accusing Mumsnet of being full of transphobes and of course insisting that all such threads are pulled. @nodebate at its finest!

TitaniasCloset · 05/03/2018 18:56

Yeah sorry for the 'silly bitches' comment, but they piss me off these women who want to condemn feminists while using all the opportunities feminists caught for. Their arguments are generally inane and I'm not saying I'm the brightest but even I can see they have no idea about the history of feminism or how bad things could be.

Not referring to the lovely Lass here, or women like her, everyone is entitled to believe what they want but the you tubers annoy me because I'm a 42 year old woman who has lived a life and done and did the whole man pleasing step ford wife thing when I was young, got me nowhere.

TitaniasCloset · 05/03/2018 18:58

Greensmurf yeah I think so. That's good. If it wasn't for Mumsnet and Gallus I would have no idea about any of this. But I'm reading and researching now and talking to anyone who sits still for long enough to listen. Grin

RoughtBootedOne · 05/03/2018 19:01

They are not happy.

TitaniasCloset · 05/03/2018 19:02

Name changer if you are genuine please stick around and do start your own thread, don't be put off. Feminists are getting a hard time of it lately despite #metoo and all the marches. Even I get really attacked online for holding feminist views and I'm just a very ordinary woman who is new to all this too.

thebewilderness · 06/03/2018 21:00

My advice to those who were calling me a sea lion (whatever that means) is that you need a new tactic. Being nasty to people never works. If you want people on your side with this, then be nicer, kinder human beings. Not everyone in the world is up to speed with this, most people have never even heard of it before and can't see what the problem is. You will just alienate people if you are belittling, untrusting of people's motives and unkind.
We named your behavior and suggested that Google is your friend.
You continued the same behavior.
On the interwebs no one knows you are a potato.

OlennasWimple · 06/03/2018 21:25

I ventured onto The Other Place just now, wondering if they had a feminism section and to see if I could rally some troops to support the Sex Matters campaign

Oh my

Apart from the quietest politics section I've ever seen on any general chat forum, the most recent thread on feminism was this: www.netmums.com/coffeehouse/general-coffeehouse-chat-514/politics-policies-866/1652232-you-woman-fed-up-feminism-do-you-support-philip-davies-mp.html

You'll note that there are a few posters pushing back on the OP and others' suggestions that Philip Davies is a Good Thing and the Instanbul Convention is a Bad Thing, but not nearly enough Sad