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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Munroe Bergdorf for Grazia "Women Are Getting Feminism Wrong.

240 replies

HelenaDove · 27/02/2018 21:28

graziadaily.co.uk/life/opinion/munroe-bergdorf-women-getting-feminism-wrong/

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HelenaDove · 27/02/2018 21:31

Loreal made the right call IMO.

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weaselwords · 27/02/2018 21:31

Grrrrrrrrr

HelenaDove · 27/02/2018 21:34

Grazia have tweeted out the article on their feed The comments underneath are quite heartening.

According to Press Gazette sales of Grazia have been dropping year on year. This wont help.

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Thisusernamethingistricky · 27/02/2018 21:36

Munroe Bergdorf can just fuck off. Seriously. I'm so tired of this.

The thing I don't understand is why trans rights can't just be seen as their own thing in their own right? Why do transwomen have to appropriate feminism? Well actually I do understand - it's so that they can tell women how to woman in a 'legitimate' way.

Men are whatever men say they are, and women are whatever men say they are.

Munroe Bergdorf is a man. A. Man.

HelenaDove · 27/02/2018 21:38

How Munroe spoke to a woman who lost her reproductive capacity due to cancer.

twitter.com/NaturalAllWoman/status/968482024523812864

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LassWiADelicateAir · 27/02/2018 21:39

I don't know if I use any L'Oreal products. I think I should buy some to show solidarity. Bergdorf deserved to be dropped.

Agrona · 27/02/2018 21:40

sigh Another trans woman telling women how to think, behave and ‘perform’ feminism. How unusual!

Thisusernamethingistricky · 27/02/2018 21:43

To be fair to Monroe, at least Monroe doesn't just block anyone who disagrees with them like Paris, Lily and Shon do.

The comments underneath Monroe's tweet about the Grazia article are heartening.

HelenaDove · 27/02/2018 21:44

Lass i use their Elvive Colour Protect shampoo. And their lippies are great too.

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TerfyMcTerface · 27/02/2018 21:45

Well, thank god a man has come along to tell us how to do it right!

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 27/02/2018 21:54

I don't think these companies have yet felt the power of women

And especially, the financial power of women.

Bye bye Grazia

Hygge · 27/02/2018 22:13

TerfyMcTerface - you've said exactly what I was just thinking.

Mansplaining has reached an extreme level.

I agree with this - "A woman is more than a vagina, than her ability to bear children, the gender she was assigned at birth, a socio-economic class, marital status or sexual history" - but even so, I still believe that my vagina, my vulva, my clitoris, my womb, my ovaries, my ability to bear children (coming to an end due to age), my birth gender, and everything else and so much more, make me a woman in a way that a feeling or an outfit do not.

A woman might not be able to bear children, a woman might have had a hysterectomy, or had her breasts removed because of breast cancer, or god forbid be subjected to FGM, but her born experience still makes her a woman in a way that feelings and outfits don't.

And I am fully supportive of them in their experience as women. Monroe also says straight women should stand up for lesbians, and I do. For example I don't believe that lesbians should be forced to have sex with someone who identifies as a woman but has a penis if she does not want to.

We do not need Monroe to tell us this. I'd say most women are already doing this. I'm doing this within my own family. My cousin with infertility issues. My SIL who just hasn't met the right person to start a family with. My other SIL and my Aunt with breast cancer (which we're now apparently meant to call chest cancer in case we exclude someone). Me, who can get pregnant but who struggles to stay pregnant. My older female relatives going through menopause. My niece faced with keeping her breasts and risking cancer, or having her breasts removed at the age of 20 to take the risk away. The relative who had a hysterectomy, my friend who has begged for one because of health issues.

We're all facing different things but the thing about women is that we get this. We know this. We have a long history of women behind us who stepped up and supported each other. We're women. We don't need to be told how to woman. We've already got this.

I had to look up why L'oreal sacked Monroe. It did remind me of a slogan I saw shared recently though, although from a different company's slogan. It said "Vagina: Maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's none of your business." I think I might be buying a L'oreal product in appreciation now.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 27/02/2018 22:16

Bergdorf really needs to move past the whole pussy hat thing. They're starting to sound a bit obsessed.

MrsDoylesTeaBags · 27/02/2018 22:18

Could Munroe Bergdorf be more obnoxious if he tried?
He doesn't even hid his contempt for women anymore.

HelenaDove · 27/02/2018 22:18

My DNiece is a lesbian. She used to talk about supporting the trans agenda a lot but not recently.

I really like the sound of the old school transsexuals who post on here.

I would have no problem referring to them as she or calling them women.

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McTufty · 27/02/2018 22:20

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HelenaDove · 27/02/2018 22:24

"Female biology is a large part of female oppression,"

Im a childfree by choice woman who asked to be sterilised many times from my 20s to early 30s (im 44) i was told i may change my mind, dont know my own mind etc.

Not wanting to EVER have a child made me so paranoid about becoming pregnant I believe if i had been able to be sterilized when i was younger my love/sex life would have turned out a lot differently.

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troodiedoo · 27/02/2018 22:24

Bye then Grazzia, off you fuck.

Thisusernamethingistricky · 27/02/2018 22:26

As someone else said, we are now in a place where having a vagina, uterus, cervix, ovaries etc doesn't make you a woman, but donning a dress, having 'facial feminisation surgery' and simply saying 'I am a woman', does.

Thisusernamethingistricky · 27/02/2018 22:27

Grazia has been shit for years.

McTufty · 27/02/2018 22:29

@helenadove Flowers

That experience based on your biology is no less important or valid than the many other diverse experiences women have with their reproductive systems, and it enrages me when TRAs equate female biology with pregnancy etc (and start coming out with shite like what about infertile women) because it is so much more complex than that.

CapnHaddock · 27/02/2018 22:30

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whywhywhywhywhyyy · 27/02/2018 22:31

I love having a movement by women for women mansplained

hipsterfun · 27/02/2018 22:32

Not wanting to EVER have a child made me so paranoid about becoming pregnant I believe if i had been able to be sterilized when i was younger my love/sex life would have turned out a lot differently.

Based on a different kind of personal experience, I can understand. I’m sorry if things haven’t been what you would’ve hoped.

HelenaDove · 27/02/2018 22:34

From the Press Gazette website.

"Grazia posted circulation figures of 102,859 for the second half of last year (ABC figures), down 16 per cent year-on-year – the third biggest decline across the women’s lifestyle magazine sector over the six-month period.

The title has experienced steady decline since the second-half of 2009 when sales were at a record-high of 229,732."

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