Munroe Bergdorf for Grazia "Women Are Getting Feminism Wrong.

[HelenaDove]

graziadaily.co.uk/life/opinion/munroe-bergdorf-women-getting-feminism-wrong/

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/labour-lgbt-adviser-munroe-bergdorf-wanted-to-gay-bash-star-b75v8l60r?shareToken=a228b365a15acfaa709c0657fdeb03a4

Times article today. 4th Wave now have also posted screenshots of Bergdorf encouraging kids to send him private messages on Twitter. If Labour don't sack him now, they're fucked.

Hello all,

Slightly OT, but does anyone know where I can buy a pussy hat?

Thanks very much x

Munroe's a delight and no mistake.

Soaked to the bone in homophobia and a good dusting of misogyny on top. Cracking represntative you've got for lesbians, there, Dawn.

Can't find a full list of who's on the panel, but I see it includes LOJ, and has at least five other men and only one, possibly two actual woman so good balance there. Wouldn't want too many uppity women on it, eh?

Times article today. 4th Wave now have also posted screenshots of Bergdorf encouraging kids to send him private messages on Twitter. If Labour don't sack him now, they're fucked.

I bet Labour doesn't sack Bergdorf. Labour loves to double down on stupidity. I despair sometimes.

Bergdorf did ask minors to get in contact privately. As did that Rachel Mackinnon.

This is grooming and cult behaviour in the plain light of day.

Bergdorf did ask minors to get in contact privately.

Is there a source for this? And what kind of messages?

Sorry, I don't like MB any more than the next person, and don't know what the Labour Party are thinking with the appointment.

But these sort of unsubstantiated accusations don't really do anything for our cause.

It's not unsubstantiated:

mobile.twitter.com/4th_WaveNow/status/969608505253683201

Also:

mobile.twitter.com/TransReflect/status/930695547815628802

They clearly have no understanding of child protection.

They clearly have no understanding of child protection.

It's a constant theme, isn't it? The complete disregard for decades upon decades of research, knowledge and practice on safeguarding and child protection.

It's even more annoying when you remember that all those systems were forged by knowledge gains after abuse scandals.

One of them, I forget which one, goes about reporting parents who insist on watchful waiting for their trans-identifying teen, to social services in the hopes of getting the child taken into care.

But these sort of unsubstantiated accusations don't really do anything for our cause.

You should follow better. This is not uncommon.

Don't police me, please. I do not wish to be accommodating or temperate. That's how we are in the mess we are in.

OK, thanks Secret for those links.

Yes, even if it's all 'innocent' and Munroe does genuinely just want to help trans kids, asking for DMs on Twitter probably isn't the best way to go about it!

It's a constant theme, isn't it? The complete disregard for decades upon decades of research, knowledge and practice on safeguarding and child protection.

Not just safeguarding and child protection, but also the very basics of child development and psychology.

Don't police me, please. I do not wish to be accommodating or temperate. That's how we are in the mess we are in.

I'm not 'policing' anyone. I asked for a source as posters were saying things without links. I looked on 4th Wave Now twitter and couldn't find anything referring to what had been said. And I'm aware that TRAs will use anything that is not watertight against us.

Anyway, I've seen the links now and commented accordingly.

@Thisusernamethingisstricky - I'm not in the habit of posting 'unsubstantiated rumours' and neither is 4thWaveNow.

I provided a source.

I think it's about a complete disregard for child protection and a overweening belief that the rules don't apply to trans. The arrogance of telling other people that we can't speak for trans but they are perfectly entitled to tell women how and why we're doing feminism wrong still astounds me

Why are women always expected to be the handmaidens for everyone else’s causes?

And the arrogance of not having any sense of their total lack of qualification for offering help to psychologically vulnerable people.

There is a theme about disregarding child protection principles from transactivist organisations. They seem to be deliberately isolating children from all sources of support

Here's an example from some GIREs online training where they advise a teacher to keep a disclosure from a 13 year old secret. Teachers are taught that you NEVER keep confidentiality like this - you don't know the context of a child's life, levels of distress / self harm and you always share with the pastoral / safeguarding lead. (hope the link works)

cs1.e-learningforhealthcare.org.uk/public/GEV/GEV_01_001/story_html5.html?lms=1

Inviting children to make contact online with strangers is lesson one in the abuser's handbook.

There are very few circumstances where an adult trying to conceal information about a child from the child's parents isn't up to no good. Normally this is one of those things that's obvious to everyone, but somehow you say the magic word "gender" and all suspicion is meant to evaporate.

Here's an example from some GIREs online training where they advise a teacher to keep a disclosure from a 13 year old secret. Teachers are taught that you NEVER keep confidentiality like this - you don't know the context of a child's life, levels of distress / self harm and you always share with the pastoral / safeguarding lead. (hope the link works)

Yes, I'm a teacher and we are always told that not only must we inform the safeguarding lead of any disclose ASAP, we also make it clear to the child that we have to tell someone else and we cannot keep anything they tell us a secret.

The fact that this is not the same around trans issues is just weird.

Inviting children to make contact online with strangers is lesson one in the abuser's handbook.

Yes, exactly.

And at this point, it's no longer about gender. It doesn't matter what the motivation is - in this case, it's kids who question gender but it could be kids who are vulnerable about any other thing - safeguarding procedures for minors are there for a reason. We would red flag any stranger adult inviting private contacts with minors for any other reason - private contacts about gender-questioning is no different.

Tallulah thank you, 'Overton window', widening my horizons.

Thisusernamethingistricky

It's unbelievable isn't is. All these decades of child abuse disasters, serious case reviews into child deaths nearly all commenting on failure to share information and then these groups come along (many funded by the DfE) and actively undermine safeguarding principles and nobody says a bloody word! They're not even 'secret' about it.

And it's not just once. Setting gender non conforming children aside from all children, treating them as more likely to be suicidal than all other children, ensuring that adults immediately 'give in' to their demands, adults making direct contact with children online - all in plain sight.

Sorry for the derail - it just makes me so mad that people just accept the grooming behaviour and techniques from these groups and individuals that would be completely unacceptable from any other organisation in the world!!

Bergdorf seems like a malignant narcissist to me.

It's frustrating that commenting on their poor and dangerous practice would be seen as accusing them of paedophilia, and transphobia. No, it's just intensely narcissistic to assume you know better than all child development professionals, trained children's workers and parents and that the boundaries don't apply to you.

Perhaps there is a form of development issue which sees boundaries as being there to be broken.

If Labour don't sack him now, they're fucked

Here is a selection of charming people welcomed back into the Labour Party. I hope Labour is unelectable.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/734eae6c-091c-11e8-8182-8ccf9f50529e