My elderly parents peak transed today

[MyBeloved]

I was having a lively debate with my parents (both in their 80s and incredibly with it and intelligent) and the subject of womens only safe spaces came up. I decided to tell them about the proposed issues involving TIMs.

And they peak transed.

So begins the spread of this information among their friends, and the ripples will spread.

phoenix

what in your opinion would be a way to change the law effectively so that women and transpeople were protected?

do you agree with transwomen being allowed to participate in women's sport?

I don't agree with stopping real transwomen who genuinely WANT to be a woman being made to use male changing rooms etc. You're putting them at risk by doing that

How?

How is it putting them at risk?

What are they at risk of?

Because, as far as I know, the structures of those changing rooms (for example) is no different; showers; hairdryers; mirrors; doors... they all work in the same way whether they are in the men's changing rooms or the women's.

So what are they at risk of?

Because the only thing I can imagine you mean is that they are at risk from other men. If that is the case, why are you/we/they not campaiging for men to behave in a less violent way? Why is the impetus not on men to change their social behaviour and instead is on women to agree to have men in spaces that have been sex segregated for a reason?

I have read several times on these threads that women shouldn't worry about men entering our safe spaces for nefarious reasons because there are already criminal laws in place to deal with these people and so, if any of them harm us, we can just report them and have them prosecuted under those laws.

If that is the case, surely those same laws apply in the men's changing rooms too! If TW are at risk from men in the men's changing rooms, then they can also report them and have them prosecuted under the same laws.

Women are not putting these people at risk. It's men! It's male violence they're worried about, they need to take it up with men

I completely agree.

I have been on the receiving end of violence from men. That's 'men', not 'women'.

Suffering from male violence is something that women and transsexuals have in common, but the answer isn't to put all of us more at risk of it by letting those men into all women's spaces!

I personally would be very happy with a separate 'unisex' space.

I don't agree with stopping real transwomen who genuinely WANT to be a woman being made to use male changing rooms etc. You're putting them at risk by doing that

Many feminists have, after much going round on circles trying to find som e compromise, concluded that unfortunately we have to exclude "true" transwomen, as it's the only way to stop the untrue trans exploiting our inclusion of true trans for their own gain.

It is not hate filled bigotry, wanting to protect your own daughters, sisters, mothers.... Women have every right to their own space away from men.

A seaside public toilet has recently become a mixed one. The horror that comes from many a mother with their daughters, upon seeing the men with their Willie's out at the urinal, to the far left, is real. The men looking over their shoulders, because they're worried they're in view is not pleasant either.

Really poorly designed. I don't want to see that myself, and I'm a grown up.

It's all, really, genuinely, going too far. What about our rights?

I have no penis. But I am very aware that I am a biological male. I fully b believe that as far as crime statistics, sports and women's spaces like rape and domestic abuse centres go that I should be counted as a biological male. Not that I'd have any desire to intrude on any of those anyway, but it seems a lot of men suddenly do

Phoenix you need to read what TruScum is saying. This is the very person you think this movement speaks for and she is telling you it doesn't.

I missed my and finally from my last post...

If this goes ahead, the safest place for women will be the men's toilets and men's changing rooms because the men who wish to do women harm will be in the ladies' masquerading as 'trans'.

charlottebowyerwriter.com/mumsnet-spreading-hatred-from-one-parent-to-another/ - A Gen Z view of this...

I'm the first quoted Mumsnetter in that article! Btw Charlotte I was a toddler in 1978, so didn't have any views about feminist issues.

Views like the one expressed above are just strange to have in our current age – it is 2018, not 1978! Due to the fact that I go to a fairly progressive girls’ school and have friends from all over the gender spectrum, I thought that people had moved on from having such antiquated views. Evidently not, and this is the type of hatred and disrespect that our parents are getting used to seeing.

I don't understand what it will take for (most) people out there in the community to see the situation and what's heading our way, in stark reality. Attacks on women in prison, a refuge or just leisure centre changing rooms by transwomen? Maybe a full event team GB at the Olympics, of transwomen? Broken bones, concussion or even death caused by a transwoman playing against a woman in a contact sport?

Tbh, I suspect that it would take very little for the population to understand very clearly this shocking situation. Just a little information disseminated would go far, together with the removal of fear of being labelled 'transphobic' or 'hateful'. It took about two minutes for me to get to that stage and more reading about it only informed and reinforced my views. There is nothing that I have read from the opposing viewpoint that has made me change my mind in any way, rather it has served to prove the point that the proposed GRA amendments are an uninformed and ill-planned stance directed at appeasing a minority's demands, at the complete, unacceptable and dangerous cost to the majority. At all levels, women are the losers here.

It's good to keep an open mind, but not so open that your brains fall out. No idea who said that, but you can bet your ass that it applies to this issue!

DonneWithThis is that a parody blog?

The posts they've screenshotted have no transphobia in them?

It just confirms that those screeching 'transphobia'...

a) have no idea what that actually is (hint: me being punched in the face just for being a transwoman is transphobic - and committed by a man. Someone having views of AGP's high-jacking then cause of transsexuals...not so much)

b) Don't actually pause to read and think. They just skim read something that disagrees with this nu-trans dogma and instantly react with 'oh my god, bigot alert!' without even taking the time to understand what is being said.

I've just attempted to post a comment on that joke blog.

It's being 'moderated'.

Who wants to bet it never make it onto the page despite having no offensive language or personal attacks on it, merely disagreeing with the author and pointing out why?

Until we start to be clear about this the topic is going to continuously cycle back to the genuine harmless transwoman who allegedly just wants to get on. For some reason we overlook the fact they are in our bathrooms gaslighting us just as much as the agps. And for the most part, they have little to say on this matter. They "don't know" about it. Even when they come here, on a thread titled trans, they "don't know about it".

Agreed - i assume Lauren Jeska is “true trans”. Lauren held the UK women’s title in Fell Running. Lauren nerly killed three men when their “identity” was challenged.

Broken bones, concussion or even death caused by a transwoman playing against a woman in a contact sport?

Already had broken bones with Hannah Mouncey and more serious injury with Fallon Fox.

Charlotte's setting herself up for a lifetime of pandering to men.

LOL, Curried and TruScum - blog owner will not want to hear from you! Bloody transphobe of a blogger!

Yup Ereshkigal, but that's probably too far from our (UK) shores and not sufficiently in the public domain to be noticed. Many people would probably not register what happens elsewhere as possibly having the same impact here. Any ideas how we can promote this please?

I'm going to write to my MP and ask her about her views and then see what I can do to encourage her to find out more about the issues involved and the horrendous ramifications that will affect everyone. My MP and I do not share the same politics but she does seem to be reasonable about a few (but definitely not all) of the policies and actions that I am interested in.

I think that this blog is the view of an intelligent and passionate young woman who (understandably) hasn't read around the subject.
To be fair, the cut and thrust of debate on here can be off putting.

We know that young people have only had access to the 'transwomen are real women' belief / propaganda and that gender critical views have been actively suppressed in education at all levels. Just as most of us know because of our experiences through puberty, pregnancy, the workplace, our medical experiences etc how women's oppression because of our biology works, it isn't surprising that younger women won't understand this.
Most of us started off from the premise of fully accepting transgender women into our spaces etc and it's only since self ID as a demand kicked off that we have revised our views. Hopefully she'll be mature enough to allow some considered gender critical posts on the blog and to actually engage with the debates, (and it is a good reminder to us all about how some of our posts can be viewed by others)

and I don't like people saying "trans women don't exist they are men" - well they're not are they. Theres some who yes quite clearly are men, and will remain so and are saying they're women to get access to safe spaces and what not, but I honestly do believe that mentally some of these "men" are women and should be treated as such.

Can you not see the contradictions in this post Phoenix? You would fail at an exam using such reasoning. My italics to highlight the contradictions

and it is a good reminder to us all about how some of our posts can be viewed by others)

I don't care how the Charlottes of this world view my belief that trans identified males aren't women. Why are we always expected to be such people pleasers?

We all make mistakes and get too involved in an emotive subject, especially online. It's a learning curve.

I think that this blog is the view of an intelligent and passionate young woman who (understandably) hasn't read around the subject.

Let's hope. And it doesn't help that it's been getting increasingly angry around here (understandably so, mind you). bit no, for the record, we're not all close-minded. It is the TRAs that refuse to even consider the other side of the argument and we are the ones calling for further debate and research.

I also think when that blog author pictures a trans woman it's a cute young one she has in mind, and perhaps she's also assumibg he's gay too, when in fact the reality is a 50 year old fully intact man who's still sexually attracted to women and girls. I wonder how comgortable she'd really be changing in front on them then?

If you're reading, please don't jump to the knee jerk assumption that we're all bigots. We're really not. This is a hugely complex issue, there are HUGE implications for women, as well as gay and lesbian young people and their long term well being and it's neither fair nor open minded to dismiss all concerns as transphobia without even giving them a fair hearing. Be open minded. What if, just what if, we actually have a point?

I didn't make a mistake. I just stated clearly that they are men.

Maybe Charlotte should ignore the discussion style of the posts on here if she doesn't like it, but actually read the content and do some research on the background information.

That was what I had to do when I read up on the transactivist viewpoints, and had to ignore the unbelievable levels of blatant misogyny and extreme hatred that were expressed and repeated ad infinitum. Unfortunately, after I read through the vitriol and / or the soft-soaping, there was still no valid and reasonable argument that would have changed my views.

I no more intend to mediate my political analysis for a passionate but wet-behind-the-ears student type than I had adult political analyses mediated for me when I was Ms Student Agitprop. I expect I did some good in those years and I expect I also spouted similar levels of ill-informed adolescent nonsense.

Young blogger may not realise it yet, but I am on her side. She may never realise it, depending on how long this misogynistic backlash lasts, but her daughters and granddaughters sure will. I hope to at least help with some damage control so those daughters and granddaughters have less to regain than they otherwise would if we were to smile nicely at Charlotte and not say any more things that upset her so.

Ereshkigal

I completely understand the rage at what is happening _ I feel it regularly. And I also take your point about women being people pleasers. But to my mind, the need to carry people with us rather than alienate is overwhelming. There is no way any of this will change until the majority understand that self ID removes at a stroke all the reasonable safeguards that are in place for sex segregated facilities / spaces. And if that means me always trying to post in a 'kind' manner and not to get too exasperated at the unthought out comments, then I'll do it.

For every one poster there are dozens and dozens of lurkers trying to find out what is happening and to make up their minds.