cis is an abusive term

[Horridemma]

I don't want to be called a 'cis' nor referred to as 'cis' in any sort of patronising way. Not sure if I really understand but from the way it is bandied about it does not sound good.

I am a woman not a 'cis'

theaveragewife I like that, makes sense and seems simple.

Also Donny I've genuinely not done much research on this - all I've seen is how it's negative to be a trans person. Although saying that on my short stint on Instagram I noticed a lot of trans people had massive followings and were quite famous.

are they a woman? Still a Transwoman?

How could they be a woman? Woman means female adult human.

they seem pretty looked down on.

They are not looked down on. They get woman of the year awards, win in sports, endless articles in the press praising them.

Women never get the plaudits that transwomen get. Just this month we celebrated 100 years since suffragettes got women the vote in the UK. Yet it was marred by online articles questioning whether violence was right, they were right wing, only a few elitist women got the vote (untrue).

I despise being referred to as cis. I have never seen it used in a context other than to demean or abuse people, and not once has anyone I know used it to describe themselves. It is a slur and people shouldn't have been able to suddenly decide it to be a reasonable description.

Datun I'm glad someone is laughing, my head is burst trying to take all this in.

I also realise how fucking stupid my statement sounded, so now am laughing.

My opinion is changing and I'm learning, this is somewhat fun albeit a total mindfuck.

TRA = trans rights activists. The people who are pushing an agenda that includes self-id; the idea that biology is a social construct but that gender is innate; for trans women to be allowed in all women's spaces including sports, prisons, shelters, locker and changing rooms (but oddly enough, not for trans men to be including in male spaces!); and early medical intervention (puberty blockers, etc) in the case of gender non-conforming children.

This is to differentiate them from old-school transsexuals, who want none of those things and are pushing for none of those things. And who often point out that the TRAs are harming them with this.

If other people want to label themselves or use terms to define themselves that is totally fine by me but I won't have anyone put a label or definition on me I get to choose that noone else.

I am a woman and a female and noone gets to tell me any different.

Okay, we're going on chromosomes here, I get it. I AM LEARNING.

Woman - XX
Man - XY

There's not much more to it is there, a man even if having his penis re-jigged will be a transwoman because he's not a woman really, is he? He's still a biological man.

Same for women?!

My opinion is changing and I'm learning, this is somewhat fun albeit a total mindfuck.

I had this experience maybe 2 years ago, although I just read and read the forum rather than engaging for quite a while. Once I'd taken it in, I wondered how I hadn't seen it before. I was too busy being "nice and liberal" I suppose.

PipGirl404

It really is the biggest mindfuck you will ever encounter.

Trans-logic is mad.

If you think transwomen are looked down on, ask yourself how the only famous trans people you are aware of, are all men identifying as women.

How many famous transmen are there? Women identifying as men.

What Are they famous for? The only two that have been in the paper are famous for getting raped or pregnant. Because they are women.

This thread might help you with terms and acronyms and the basics.

You are not the only one who is having a bit of a brain melt over this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

goes through the operation to change his penis into a vagina

That can't happen. The vagina is a female organ. Some females have cervical cancer, vaginal cancer, vulval cancer or bladder cancer which means they have to have their vagina, a bodily organ, removed/partially removed as part of their treatment. They are still a woman, a biological woman.

I've had a hysterectomy, and was lectured online by a transwoman who said it meant I was a transwoman now. Fuck me, I found that abusive and demeaning, as it was intended.

Pip

There isn't anything wrong as such with someone who has gender dysphoria being trans. In the last few years it has become so much more complicated than the small number of transsexuals there once was.

As defined by all the big LGBT orgs like Stonewall 'trans' has now become an umbrella term that encompasses so many types of people that practically everyone falls under it unless they are a walking Barbie or GI Joe stereotype. It's massively unhelpful and upholds the worst of gender stereotyping.

It has led to a myriad of issues threatening women's rights because the TRAs are advocating self ID (taking away gatekeeping as to who can legally be the opposite sex). It's a hugely regressive move yet is being supported by all the political parties - although the Tories have backtracked a little recently.

I find it an offensive term, and would tell anyone who used it to describe me. I am an adult female human, therefore l am a woman. I do not need or want to be redefined into a needless non-category to placate a very small minority of people who wish to subsume themselves into my preferred definition.

“Okay, we're going on chromosomes here, I get it. I AM LEARNING.

Woman - XX
Man - XY

There's not much more to it is there, a man even if having his penis re-jigged will be a transwoman because he's not a woman really, is he? He's still a biological man.

Same for women?!”

Exactly this! Spot on. Woman = XX that cannot be changed with surgery or wishful thinking. Man = XY. Again, cannot be changed.

Pipgirl, it is a MASSIVE mindfuck. Welcome to the rabbit hole! I’ve been following these boards properly for about 3 months and my eyes have been properly opened. There’s no going back now. And if anyone calls me ‘cis’ to my face they’ll feel the sharp end of my tongue. 4 months ago I’d have thought ‘meh’ too.

If the word 'woman' is used to cover both biological females and transwomen, it becomes meaningless. Because they are two distinct groups.

By using the word 'cis' trans activists redefine 'women' as 'someone who feels like a woman'. This is both circular and meaningless. It also makes the assumption that biological females have an inner gender identity or gendered sense of self that makes us 'women'.

I do not have a gender identity. Therefore the use of 'cis' to define me is both wrong and offensive, because the speaker is claiming to know my inner self better than I do!

Collida this is my problem - I'm super liberal and let people get on with things, probably to the detriment of people like you fighting for what is right.

Datun that is an excellent point - the first thing that comes to my head is Kaitlyn, Caitlin whatever it is Jenner winning an award for what seems like not doing much but growing hair and painting nails? I can see why people got offended at that.

I had volunteer training last month were we were introduced to the word CIS and encouraged to use it to be inclusive. I must confess that I said nothing as I would have failed the training if I did but I resolved to challenge the use of this term in my daily life. It was the first time I have come across it other than mumsnet.

If I can't use the term 'lady boy' then you can't call me a 'cis woman'.

I don't ''identify' as a woman. I am a woman.

So yes, chromosomes determine your sex. Unless you're intersex, which is a disorder and nothing to do with trans. (Don't get sucked into that argument, it's pointless. The intersex society has publicly said for TRAs to not appropriate them to shore up their argument).

So chromosomes determine sex.

Why does it matter?

Several reasons. The most pressing of which is that transactivists are pushing for a law change.

Which means that anyone can self identify as a man or woman, quite legally, by filling out a form. No diagnosis of gender dysphoria, no change in appearance, nothing.

The extent to which this can be exploited seems to occur to just about every woman in the country, but not the government or the opposition.

Despite the fact that labours woman officer post is currently held by 19-year-old boy, who thinks biology is irrelevant and he can get pregnant.

Despite the fact that they have forced women's aid to consider whether or not a man who thinks he is a woman should become rape crisis counsellor.

Despite the fact that all women shortlists could be made up entirely of men, identifying as women.

And despite the fact that the legal fiction that a man is a woman will give him an automatic transfer to a woman's prison, despite being a double rapist. Which has just happened

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thesun.co.uk/news/4400327/transgender-rapist-womens-prison/amp/

They are actually conforming to the expected gender to stereotypes of women. Which only reinforces that those stereotypes are FOR women and only women.

I feel it's important to point out that trans-identified men only take on certain select feminine stereotypes - almost always the ones that men think are fun, like make-up, clothes and sexual submission.

The vast majority of men who identify as 'transwomen' display no interest in the feminine stereotypes that have to do with nurturing others, like taking on the bulk of the housework, child care and elder care.

And they don't behave like people who have been socialised into femininity. They retain male-pattern crime rates, and, unlike women, they are very hard to guilt into putting others' needs before their own.

That is why I never refer to trans-identified males as 'gender non-conforming'. And nor will I call them feminine men. They are men who take on feminine appearance norms - not femininity itself. Femininity is not primarily about lipstick or what clothes you wear. It is about being socialised to at all times put others' needs before your own. Across the world, the feminine sex role is about providing nurturing labour and care work of others. Something trans-identified men display ZERO interest in.

Masculinity, on the other hand, is primarily about male entitlement to women's bodies, labour and lives. A truly gender non-conforming man does his best to overcome that entitlement and to reject the masculine imperative to dominate women. Whereas from what I can see, trans-identifying men are some of the most male-dominant men on earth, and their entitlement to women's labour and bodies knows no bounds. They literally think women owe them everything, even our ontological existence itself.

Datun that is so grim... how can that be allowed?

Surely TRA's can't actually get a law like that passed - that would turn society on it's head?!

I thought cis just meant you are biologically a woman, as opposed to a transwoman?

That would be a WOMAN, then! Not a cis woman.
Hate that term, I'm not a cis woman, I'm a woman.
Call yourself what you like but stop calling me a cis woman.

Datun that is an excellent point - the first thing that comes to my head is Kaitlyn, Caitlin

Yes, Caitlin Jenner won woman of the year and said the hardest part about being a woman was deciding what to wear.

The first woman on the front line, praised and feted, is a man.

The first award to women who directed a trilogy, are men. (Usurping the actual woman who directed a trilogy in the case of the Bridget Jones films.)

The first woman in the Forbes 400, is a man.

Paris Lees was celebrated in the 'hundred years of women since the suffragettes'. Paris Lees is a man who thinks being treated like a piece of meat is hot.

On the other hand, the first man to ever give birth, is a woman.

Funny that.