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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

cis is an abusive term

425 replies

Horridemma · 14/02/2018 13:21

I don't want to be called a 'cis' nor referred to as 'cis' in any sort of patronising way. Not sure if I really understand but from the way it is bandied about it does not sound good.

I am a woman not a 'cis'

OP posts:
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9
DonkeySkin · 14/02/2018 14:20

I once saw a TRA say 'cis-women, stay in your lane when talking about womanhood.' Which lane would that be? We have no other lane. Woman is what we are - it is our lane. So what he really meant was that as mere females we have no right to a subject position within womanhood, whereas as a male he not only has the right to occupy it but to exercise total authority over it.

I've said before that 'cis' is a way of displacing women from the subject position within our own category of being. That is abusive, it is utterly, terrifying male supremacist and women like the OP who have intuited the extreme misogyny behind it are spot on.

HeartCurrent · 14/02/2018 14:21

Never heard cis before but i don't like it.
I'm a 25 year old woman.
That is what I am.

The word cis has no meaning as far as I'm concerned.
I also call trans women, women.
Obviously I'm aware of the changes they've gone through but if they feel they're a woman that's what I'll call them.
I don't then expected to be called a cis woman in return.
All of these different names for things are just getting on my nerves.

Datun · 14/02/2018 14:21

I genuinely thought cis just meant biological.

Eh? What in heaven's name is a non-biological woman?!

A woman is an adult female human.

Like an ewe is an adult female sheep.

A mare is an adult female horse.

It's a description of a biological female who is grown-up. A girl is a biological female who is not grown-up.

crunchymint · 14/02/2018 14:23

Totally agree OP

Elendon · 14/02/2018 14:24

But Cis is used as a term of reference to abusive statements, such as 'Die in a fire, cis scum'.

Therefore it is abusive. To me. If one person in a room finds it abusive, then the term should be dropped.

Transwomen often say they are women but are keen to let everyone know they are transwomen. Which makes me raise an eyebrow. Cake and eating it is the phrase that comes to my mind.

PipGirl404 · 14/02/2018 14:25

HeartCurrent that sounds a bit like me, if it means I'm conforming to stereotypical 'woman' things then no, I don't want to be a cis woman.
I also don't mind calling transwomen, women.

Datun I assumed a non-biological woman would be exactly that, a transwoman?! Don't get aggro about it I came on this thread clueless and am only mildly clueful still, give us a break.

PositivelyPERF · 14/02/2018 14:26

Don’t worry PipGirl404. I was very naive when I joined Mumsnet. If you want to learn what the TRAs plan for women, then read the Feminist threads. It will scare the shit out of you as realisation hits and once that happens you’ll never be able to kid yourself that people can’t change sex.

Collidascope · 14/02/2018 14:26

Eh? What in heaven's name is a non-biological woman?!

Yep, the problem is that when you take biology out of the meaning of woman, all you're left with is stereotypes -long hair, wears skirts or skinny jeans, wears makeup, is caring and sensitive, etc. That's not what a woman is. It's a biological term, and men are welcome to the stereotypes -the makeup and long hair -but it doesn't make them women because they still have it chromosomes.

PositivelyPERF · 14/02/2018 14:27

Sorry that people *can change sex. 😕

PipGirl404 · 14/02/2018 14:27

Elendon I'm not arguing, I promise, just inquisitive - when I think of a transwoman identifying as a woman but also telling of the fact they are a transwoman, it makes me think they're proud of the journey maybe? Cake and eating it wouldn't come to mind. I'm not sure what the benefit is of being a transwoman, they seem pretty looked down on.

Collidascope · 14/02/2018 14:27

XY chromosomes. Sodding autocorrect.

PipGirl404 · 14/02/2018 14:29

Someone tell me what a TRA is, google tells me it's the Telecommunications Regulatory Authority but I feel this is not what we're talking about.

Collida good point, very good point indeed. So really we should just be men and women, transwomen and transmen, right?!

ReluctantCamper · 14/02/2018 14:30

Pipgirl it's worth bearing in mind that most people who call themselves trans women have a functional penis, and no intention of changing that. It's possible that the only change they've been through is their outfit.

DonkeySkin · 14/02/2018 14:30

"Woman" includes cis women and trans women. Really don't get the issue.

The word 'woman' only exists in order to distinguish adult human females from adult human males (men). If you want to change the definition of woman to include adult human males, you need to come up with a new definition. Otherwise you have just rendered it a nonsensical word.

So WidowWadman, define 'woman', please.

DonnyAndVladSittingInATree · 14/02/2018 14:30

I'm not sure what the benefit is of being a transwoman, they seem pretty looked down on.

Shock really??

Collidascope · 14/02/2018 14:31

Grin trans rights activists

DonnyAndVladSittingInATree · 14/02/2018 14:31

TRA = trans rights activists

OvaHere · 14/02/2018 14:31

TRA = Trans Rights Activist

Datun · 14/02/2018 14:32

pip

TRA

Stands for trans-rights activist. Aggressive men who have hijacked the narrative of gender dysphoria to push an agenda that damages women. Also known as TAs.

Words that mean transwoman:

MtT means male to trans.

TIM trans identifying male
TW - transwoman.

And vice versa for women identifying as men.

GNC means gender nonconforming. women/men who don't conform to expected gender stereotypes.

The problem with using this in respect of transwomen is that, although they are not conforming to the expected stereotypes of men, they don't claim they are men. They are actually conforming to the expected gender to stereotypes of women. Which only reinforces that those stereotypes are FOR women and only women.

Reinforcing gender, not busting it wide open.

CrazyDuchess · 14/02/2018 14:32

"To me, cis is on a par with the n word"

No it fucking isn't Angry

theaveragewife · 14/02/2018 14:33

Cis is bullshit
Gender is a construct
Sex is reality

A woman is a woman
A trans man is a trans man
A man is a man
A trans woman is a trans woman

No one group is better than another, we all deserve human rights.

PipGirl404 · 14/02/2018 14:33

See this is where it gets muddy and complicated in my mind. If it's a man, who wants to be a woman, and goes through the operation to change his penis into a vagina, and gets the hormonal treatment etc and live the rest of their lives the way they see a woman should live... are they a woman? Still a transwoman? Same on the other side, I've met a person who I VERY much thought was a man, turned out it was a woman who transitioned years ago. Do I call them a man?

Is it not all based on gender stereotypes anyway, if a man wants to be a woman, what he wants is to be society's view of a woman... Argh, my head hurts.

SundaysFunday · 14/02/2018 14:34

I am a woman, that's what I call myself.

Never heard anyone refer to themselves as 'cis' it's a term usually thrust upon them by others.

Datun · 14/02/2018 14:34

Datun I assumed a non-biological woman would be exactly that, a transwoman?! Don't get aggro about it I came on this thread clueless and am only mildly clueful still, give us a break.

You probably don't mean to, but you're making me laugh.

It's a mindfuck.

A nonbiological woman (I can't help thinking of washing powder), is a man. A woman without the biology of a woman either has something very wrong with her, or she is a man.

Mummyoflittledragon · 14/02/2018 14:35

Pip
Trans Rights Activist

Cis is very demeaning. TRA tranwomen are using cis to usurp the place of women. According to them, they are women and we are cis and the descriptive of woman is no longer available to us.