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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Jeremy Corbyn has a new enemy - Mumsnet

280 replies

busyboysmum · 12/02/2018 11:40

blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/02/jeremy-corbyn-has-a-new-enemy-mumsnet/

I’ve learned that there are some brilliant, learned and compassionate people out there, who come at this from all angles. One (purely anecdotal) observation is that the diversity of opinions within the trans-gender population is not remotely reflected in the bit of this conversation most visible at Westminster. The trans community’s opinions are not as homogenous as some reporting and discussion suggest. So here’s a tip for hacks covering this: don’t just book Paris Lees or talk about Lilly Madigan. Ask Kristina Harrison what she thinks. Or Tara Hewitt. Or lots of other people. The same goes for the ‘radical’ feminist side of this: there’s more to it than Germaine Greer. (Though for some media outlets that really should know better, having any voice from that side of the conversation at all would be an improvement.)

OP posts:
Botanistinhiding · 13/02/2018 20:02

oh gatorade, labour are very persistent - we started our 'leaving process' about 6 months ago, you can expect many calls, emails, from the general to the specific when you get a personal email from a local party member. In fact, it's the most harassment I've had from them since we joined!

Destinysdaughter · 13/02/2018 20:19

THe fact that the Spectator article has been shared on the Labour Party reddit, and pp are coming over here and are shocked at what they’re reading means there’s no way the leadership are not very clear about what many women think about self id. So, who will they throw under the bus, women who are half the electorate, or their trendy youth vote...?

AssignedPuuurfectAtBirth · 13/02/2018 20:50

The utter arrogance of that reddit thread.

No, we will not step back. Further, we are going to organise a No campaign for this.

Ignore women at your peril

DamnDeDoubtanceIsSpartacus · 13/02/2018 20:59

I don't think the bromentum dudes realise just how out of touch they are with people on the doorstep who haven't even heard of all this. One conversation and a wee bit of critical thinking is all it takes. There is nothing progressive about giving men more rights.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 13/02/2018 21:02

I don't think the bromentum dudes realise just how out of touch they are with people on the doorstep

I was about to post something like 'how can they not realise what a catastrophic vote-loser this could be' but I think you're right.

They're so full of themselves they are just incapable of thinking about this (anything?) from anyone else's perspective

Bloomed · 13/02/2018 21:07

I never thought I could leave labour. What a difference a year can make.

TheXXFactor · 14/02/2018 03:29

I don't think the bromentum dudes realise just how out of touch they are with people on the doorstep

This. You see it all the time on Twitter, from Owen Jones down. They have genuinely convinced themselves that 'TERFs' are a minority and that the majority of the population buys into the 'men can become women' bullshit. The media censorship of GC views has allowed them to sustain this belief.

Enjoy your wake call, bro dudes Wink

LeslieKnopefan · 14/02/2018 03:43

Lizbeth is one of my favourite people to follow on twitter. I highly recommend!

The problem is labour want to be so “right on” and cool they can’t see the woods for the trees.

Local labour have trans women on their short list for one of their seats.

LeslieKnopefan · 14/02/2018 03:44

Oh and to add to my last comment. The list is women only and I have seen this woman interviewed. There is no way she would have been picked if she wasn’t trans. Her interview skills were appalling.

LeslieKnopefan · 14/02/2018 03:48

Here is the interview for anyone interested

www.nottinghampost.com/news/nottingham-news/transgender-woman-woman-shortlist-labour-1063476

TheXXFactor · 14/02/2018 03:54

Could someone link to the Reddit discussion please? Apologies if I missed it upthread.

FloraFox · 14/02/2018 09:16

That candidate! Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man.

WhatsAllThisShouting · 14/02/2018 13:37

Have filled in the Scottish GRA consultation - lordy lordy, the language, the rabbit holes - wanted to poke my eyes out by the time I got to the questions about non-binary - but persisted nevertheless to the bitter end. Had to check "don't know" to several questions because there wasn't an option for "wtf are you thinking?" although I did point that out.

I peaked last summer, particularly around the time of the Hyde Park incident - Mumsnet have been instrumental in gaining the knowledge I now have (and wish I didn't need) on this subject.

Will also be protest voting in all future local/national elections and will let them know why until this mess is sorted out. I'm so disappointed with all political parties right now - shame on them all.

sallyandherarmy · 14/02/2018 14:12

What about females that want to self ID as males?

Do they get the same recognition/rights etc as the males self IDing as females?

nauticant · 14/02/2018 14:50

Oh for the confidence of a mediocre man.

hahaha

Popchyk · 14/02/2018 16:13

Oh, this is good.

The Express has published an article about self-ID.

"Corbyn's transgender NIGHTMARE: Mumsnet fires back at Labour leader over self ID policies."

Good article that absolutely centres self-ID as the issue.

Quotes some mumsnet folks.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 14/02/2018 16:34

Do they get the same recognition/rights etc as the males self IDing as females?

Well, funny you should ask that...

Datun · 14/02/2018 16:55

Well, funny you should ask that...

I seem to be arfing a lot today.

Destinysdaughter · 14/02/2018 17:46

Just seen this on Twitter, yet another way to silence women and make us look like bigots...

Jeremy Corbyn has a new enemy - Mumsnet
BitFuckedOffNow · 14/02/2018 17:52

What about females that want to self ID as males?

Do they get the same recognition/rights etc as the males self IDing as females?

Is this a serious question? I'm going to make the assumption that it is, because realising that trans-right activism was pretty much entirely focused on TIMs was the first step for me on the road from 'transwomen are women' mantra-repeating liberal to peak trans. And once you peak trans, no one ever ever goes back (and that ought to tell you something too). So actually thank you for asking the question, because the more this gets out there, the more debate there is, the more people peak trans.

First off ask yourself this: trans-identified men make the news for sporting achievements, achieving political positions, etc. Meanwhile, what do trans-identified women make the news for?

And as for the same recognition/rights, look at primogeniture. A TIM who legally changes his sex to female will be unaffected and still be able to inherit. The fact that this is an exception (and that no trans-activists seem to give a shit about it being an exception) should tell you exactly where the priorities really lie: with men, trans-identified or not.

And as for TIFs being able to access male spaces legally, that's missing the point. Biological females simply do not present the same danger to men that men do to women -- 98% of sexual offences are committed by men. Men don't have to worry about their spaces being taken over by women, because women do not present the same threat.

Aggressive men have no issues with shouting women down, silencing them, threatening them with rape and violence. Funny that, since that's pretty much the behaviour of many trans-activists. What does that tell you?

ReluctantCamper · 14/02/2018 19:16

That express article is very pleasing Popchyk, makes self ID look like the self destruct it is

TheRagingGirl · 15/02/2018 07:40

A TIM who legally changes his sex to female will be unaffected and still be able to inherit

To me, what's more shocking is that if the eldest child in a titled/aristocratic family is female, and legally changes sex/gender to male, even as a transman with a GRC the would not inherit the title and estate.

I think this reveals, nakedly, the sham of all of this.

It's a way of maintaining the hierarchy of gender roles, seen - in conservative patriarchal ideology - to attach to biological sex.

meddie · 15/02/2018 11:32

TheRagingGirl. Absolutely. If the TRA's truly believed that transwomen are women and transmen are men. Why have I not seen any agitating for a change in this law. Its glaringly discriminatory against transmen. Surely this would be an easy one to go after as you cant argue that someone is legally a man, but cant inherit as the 1st born son. They either are male legally or their not. To allow this law to continue shows that no one really believes that someone can change sex.
Or that deep down they dont mind pandering to delusional mens beliefs, as long as it doesnt impact biological males economically.

BitFuckedOffNow · 15/02/2018 14:49

To me, what's more shocking is that if the eldest child in a titled/aristocratic family is female, and legally changes sex/gender to male, even as a transman with a GRC the would not inherit the title and estate.

Blush

Yes, that's the bit I find most shocking too, and completely neglected to mention. Thanks for pointing it out (Although if any TRAs gave a shit about trans men, you'd think they might wonder a bit about that without it having to be pointed out).

Hygge · 15/02/2018 20:25

@TheRagingGirl I agree.

They are not going to take the risk of an older girl self-identifying as male and taking the family fortune away from a younger boy.

Which really does expose the sham and double standards of the whole thing.