19 year old DD tells me ALL boys want to throttle.

[Spidermama]

I've just been left feeling really angry and powerless. DD tells me pretty much all boys 'even nice ones' like to put their hands around girl's throats semi strangling them as part of sex. She's told me other horrible things about what girls her age are fully expected to put up with.
She says the boys get it from porn and there's nothing unusual about it.

I and I'm sure many of us women, have put up with things during sex that we've not really liked just to get it over with. But this is getting ridiculous! It makes me so sad to think of all these young women having to put up with these levels of violence and hatred in something which is supposed to be enjoyable for them.

What can she do. I know how hard it is to stop things being done to you mid act.

To what extent do mothers talk to their sons about this stuff?

Well mine are preschoolers but I already talk to them a lot about respecting other people's physical autonomy. E.g. it's fine to play / tickle / roughhouse etc but the minute the other person says stop or you notice they're not happy then you stop. I scaffold their understanding of how you notice those cues and get them to think about why people get upset when you override their boundaries and how they would feel in that situation. I've also recruited their dad to take the same stance.

At the moment it's more relevant to nursery manners but it's a conversation I expect to keep having and to elaborate as they get older.

And it really pisses me off that some people are making this a woman’s fault.

Bertrand I was away at boarding school & then Uni when my sex life began. When I was gang raped at school it was my mum I rang in floods of tears. I felt comfortable telling her because of the fact she had always been so open with me about sex & relationships. Being away from home doesn't change that.

Obviously if another person is going to try & force someone into something, there is nothing anybody away from the situation can immediately do. But I know from growing up that many of my friends never had that open relationship with their parents, & it meant that some of the girls especially didn't really know where to turn for advice about things they were experiencing. If we can stop all this shit being such a taboo secret then we are making steps in the right direction

Porn is not the problem. Just like violent video games or films arent the problem. Its communication and parenting.

FFS. Read the description above of a brutalised woman having her mouth sewn shut and you don't think this kind of thing is connected to letting people watch stuff like the human centipede et al? You must be joking, or so deep in denial it's worrying in itself.

valentinestart but that 'perfect woman' thing is a perfect example of how it is not that clear cut. In terms of sexuality it doesnt actually matter what is trendy. Do you seriously think that when Monroes figure was fashionable that that is all men were turned on by? Theres a massive spectrum of what people enjoy sexually and it doesnt matter what they have been exposed to if it did why are some people gay? When they are surrounded by images of hetero sexuality from being a child? Clearly it is not as black and white as monkey see monkey do at all.
I just dont accept that the responsibility is all that of pornography and not the individual situations and personalities involved.
I dont think horror and outrage does any good. The porn that is trendy is a reflection of society. Porn itself is not inherently misogynist I think theres just a massive backlash at the moment against women. Things are changing and theres a lot of anger at the pushing of traditional gender roles and that is reflected in how common violent porn is at the moment.
I think the type of men who take those images to heart and have their sexuality altered by it are troubled and angry young men. There are many men who will not be affected by these images it completely depends on circumstance and personality. Therefore I would consider something to have gone badly wrong with a man whos sexuality was heavily shaped by porn. I would not simply say 'well thats the world today how could he help himself?!'

90% of Y6 boys have seen internet porn. It’s child abuse on a societal scale. It’s not right and I don’t give a shit you could find a razzle or two lying around in the 80s, a picture of a naked woman is nothing like the horrific stuff that’s a couple of clicks away now. I’m worried sick for my dc, however much I do in my own home there will always be the cool parents or the don’t give a shit parents who let their kids have unfettered internet access.

Anyone getting off on violent acts committed on trafficked, coerced or abused women isn’t a right on liberal sex positive individual, they’re monstrous.

The OP should have taught her daughter better. The daughter should have said NO clearer.

Always it’s the woman to blame, not the porn fueled Neanderthal who didn’t bother about the little matter of consent,

Porn is not the problem. Just like violent video games or films arent the problem. Its communication and parenting

Yeah, yeah, if young men all seem to think throttling women without their consent is normal its the fault of their mums.

Unbelievable.

'anyone getting off on violent acts committed on trafficked coerced or abused women isnt a right on liberal sex positive individual..'

Who is saying that they are? I dont think you understand sex positive feminism or are willfully misunderstanding it.

Feminism doesn't hear that a young woman is struggling with feeling forced into sex she doesn't want and respond with "but I like it!".

Back to individual over structural analysis. AGAIN.

I don't care what mature adults with an equally mature sexual identity do together on the basis of mutual enjoyment and consent. I really don't.

I do care about an environment in which young people who are just, tentatively, beginning to explore sex and their own sexual identity land in the middle of a grooming culture in which consent is subsumed beneath a glorification of kinks that can only be suitable for people who have already established a healthy and mature sexual identity.

I care about young girls who are being groomed to endure and not enjoy.

I care about Teen Vogue posting articles valorising this pernicious culture.

I care about the acres of research done on the pressure young girls feel to have anal sex that they don't enjoy.

I care about young girls reporting to sexual health clinics for infections caused by repeated depilations because apparently having pubic hair is now a revolutionary fucking act.

I don't care about your personal bloody kink.

Helmet so you automatically assume i mean women when i say parent? I think that says more about you than me tbh

Strange how it's always women as recipient. Do men enjoy this as much? Are they regularly depicted in porn having this done to them? If it's just a question of sensation you'd think it would work for both men and women.

I was going to say exactly this, it's never something that's done to men in porn, funny that. I get that some women do genuinely enjoy this practice but surely strangulation, which is obviously a risky thing to do is something which should be discussed beforehand. It should not be mainstream to the point where even some teenagers think it's normal and expected.

OP i think the thread has sidetracked a little, but hopefully you've taken some bits in! All you can do for your DD is reassure her that 'normal' is relative to her & how she feels. If she isn't comfortable with something then her self respect & comfort is worth far more than a relationship with somebody who thinks it is okay to force or coerce her into something she isn't happy with. As many PP have said, someone forcing a sex act on her or forcing her to commit one she isn't happy with is sexual assault & she would be well in her rights to report the piece of trash to the police.
I think the fact she is comfortable talking to you about it speaks volumes.

Helmet so you automatically assume i mean women when i say parent? I think that says more about you than me tbh

I'll tell you what it says. It says I think you're a twat.

"A whole generation of young men think sexualised violence is normal. I blame the parents. Their mums and dads just don't teach them right."

WTF?!

valentinestart but that 'perfect woman' thing is a perfect example of how it is not that clear-cut. In terms of sexuality, it doesnt actually matter what is trendy. Do you seriously think that when Monroes figure was fashionable that that is all men were turned on by?

NO namalt. But yes, cultural norms on attraction are clearly dictated by the media and culture of a society. That's not up for dispute and there is LOTS of evidence to back it up. What is beautiful, be it bound feet or incredibly long necks that have been forced that way thorugh body modification, are dictated by society. Or do you think it's coincidence? In the same way the sexual inclinations of a teenager will be influenced by watching graphic porn, because he is becoming repeatedly sexually aroused by it.

Please I beg of you to give me some evo psych answer for why 17 year old boys would be trying to strangle their partner if not for the porn they are consuming?

Porn itself is not inherently misogynist

Even before it was as overtly vicious as it is now porn was always misogynistic. Thing was, back in the day most men weren't seeing a ton of porn until they were already sexually active, so they already had some foundation of actual experience before the porn was able to influence them. For boys now they were watching porn long before they were having any sort of sexual experiences. The impact is bigger because there were no real life experiences there before the porn, the porn came first. If you don't see why that's relevant then you don't understand how the brain works.

OP, remember that its you and her DF are responsible for this.

And the aforementioned porn fueled Neanderthal was apparantly created by his mother. Because when people say “parenting” they sure as hell don’t mean “fathering” . Which is practically nor even a word.

Please I beg of you to give me some evo psych answer for why 17 year old boys would be trying to strangle their partner if not for the porn they are consuming?

Well, um, there's this beetle, you see, and when it mates it uses its mandibles to clasp its mate, and (7 paragraphs of complete bollocks later) that's why facials are an innate part of male sexuality!

"Who is saying that they are? I dont think you understand sex positive feminism or are willfully misunderstanding it."

Literally I don't know any sex negative feminists.

I know feminists who have done shit you never heard of but STILL don't like "sex positive feminism" because it's populated by male feminists people who think you can't question why a woman does anything or why sex is os often violent towards women.

Also the same women who are trying to so hard to be right on and worrying about micro aggressions will happily support a porn industry that is so disgustingly and overtly racist. Because men like to wank to racism and misogyny.

angryattackkittens well yeah I agree with you! Im not saying porn should be shown to children. But the people involved in the OPs post are young adults.
My point is that it is down to the individual and the OPs daughter does not need to just accept that 'all men expect that now' Because they seriously dont. Any of them that do are not decent people. Theres no excuse for it. Having seen pornography at a young age is not an excuse to behave like an utter bellend. I hear what you are saying about young boys being affected by it... however the extent to which youd have to be exposed to it to let it genuinely influence your sexuality.. and the extent that you would have had to not had any other experiences of sexuality or examples or conversations about sexuality.. would indicate pretty poor parenting or growing up in very difficult circumstances for some reason.
Im saying that theres been a lot of outrage against pornography on thsi thread in general as though its some type of excuse for misogyny and i dont believe it is either a sole cause or an excuse.

Oh that's true I forgot about the rare faciusspunkitus beetle or its cousin the analobsessiutus

valentinesfart im not actually saying anything you are accusing me of saying and you are being incredibly insulting. It appears to be you who thinks that I cant question anyones attitudes to pornography, not the other way round

Not to get off topic but I had a, well, let's just say an adventurous youth. To the point where if I was to get into details I could probably have some of our sex positive friends clutching their pearls.

Still never tried to strangle anyone without their consent, or had them try to do it to me, because doing so hadn't been normalized in the porn that a generation of young men grew up watching yet. There has been a clear and significant cultural shift. If you haven't noticed this you haven't been paying attention.

Porn itself has changed so much ,so that now it's all about the violence,the extreme.personally I think it shouldn't be on the net or legal .i think the government needs to crack down on it.its poisoning society