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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you all just lay off trans people

742 replies

cjferg · 10/02/2018 17:11

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

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Datun · 12/02/2018 17:13

From Stonewall:

Homosexual – this might be considered a more medical term used to describe someone who has an emotional romantic and/or sexual orientation towards someone of the same gender. The term ‘gay’ is now more generally used.

Medical? Gender?

Transphobia - the fear or dislike of someone based on the fact they are trans, including the denial/refusal to accept their gender identity.

www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:13

I though the bit "want to date" was the "romantic" stuff eg aromntic.

No? Maybe they changed it all again Grin

The other point about this is that it is all built around a stereotypically hyper-masculine sort of teenage boy view of sex. Essentially you need a label if you are not up for sex 24/7. There is no label for up for sex 24/7 - that is the default. So teenage male stereotypical hyper-sexual - male sex drive as presented in porn etc - is positioned as the "norm" and anything else needs a label.

So teenage girls who like to get to know someone before they have sex, or to really fancy them, or whatever, or girls / women who don't feel horny all the time, need a special label to explain it. We used to call this "normal" now it is a (non default) sexual preference that needs explaining.

I do think that "actually I'm greysexual whatever-romantic" might be the current way girls use to get pestering boys off their backs.

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:14

I really dislike the fact that normal female sexualities now have to be labelled as if they are not.

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:15

oh lol angrykittens, same thing but mine was longer and late

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 17:15

There's even a label for only wanting sex with people who don't want you, which is funny because I thought we already had a word for that and it was "rapist".

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 12/02/2018 17:16

The lesbian that threw the punch that started the Stonewall Riots must be rolling in her grave.

Will this be the one thats been retroactively transed? Apparently it was trans people who started the Stonewall riots and lead the way for gay rights, and now gay people must stand with them to..uh..erase the meaning of the word gay and take away their rights.

Datun · 12/02/2018 17:17

"Sexual orientation – a person’s emotional, romantic and/or sexual attraction to another person."

But not dependent on sex, obvs.

Also I'm emotionally attracted to my son. What does that make my sexual orientation?

Ostrichnomore · 12/02/2018 17:17

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AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 17:17

"I'm demisexual" is definitely being used as a "please leave me alone, I've only known you for half an hour and do not want to touch your penis yet" by a lot of girls.

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:18

oh lord

and then we can start moving across to the whole kink thing, how anything a man does to a woman is cool if is says it gave him a hard-on, and the rise of articles about lovely (forgot the word they use) paedophiles....

Probably too much for this thread though!

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:20

ah sorry I am strictly a-pregnancy-sexual

although if you tell me that's bigoted clearly I'll come round and have sex with you anyway

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 17:20

MAP, for "minor attracted person".

The whole "my gender is fern and I'm a demisexual bigender half-elf" stuff is all fun and games until you realize that it's being used to sneak pedophilia in while nobody's paying attention.

Ostrichnomore · 12/02/2018 17:23

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Juzza12 · 12/02/2018 17:25

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Juzza12 · 12/02/2018 17:26

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TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 12/02/2018 18:07

Young women need to come up with a gender that means 'only wanting to have sex with people who I find sexually attractive and who are good in bed'. I could get behind respecting that gender identity.

And yes we need to keep an eye on that alphabet soup.

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 18:32

remembered - "virteous paedophile" - there has been an upswing in pieces about paedophilia as an orientation on the "queer" spectrum, and about poor persecuted "virtuous" paedophiles, the one I read, there was a woman who responded saying he had abused her as a child. So much for "virtuous".

This happened with PIE in the 70s trying to hitch on (and succeeding pretty well) to the gay rights movement.

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 18:33

Tallulah

But most men identify as being good in bed, don't they?!!!

Ostrichnomore · 12/02/2018 18:40

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Datun · 12/02/2018 18:44

It's this new push to accept 'minor attracted people', as long as they promise they won't do anything about it.

Just another sexual orientation.

Hmm. Stonewall's definition looking even more sinister.

"Sexual orientation – a person’s emotional, romantic and/or sexual attraction to another person."

They really, really need to start using the words men and women.

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 12/02/2018 18:46

But most men identify as being good in bed, don't they?!!!

Misogynist men have been banging on about using formal contracts to establish consent before daring to have sex following #metoo.

Perhaps women should take the concept further and insist on 3 good references to boot

LangCleg · 12/02/2018 18:48

Is there an orientation "I only have sex with men who aren't sexist"?

RadicalFern · 12/02/2018 18:48

Tallulah

I nearly spat my tea out laughing at the 3 good references!

Ostrichnomore · 12/02/2018 18:51

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hipsterfun · 12/02/2018 18:54

Heterosexual / straight - refers to a person who has an emotional, romantic and/or sexual orientation towards people of the opposite gender

But, but, when there are so many wonderful genders, surely there isn’t an ‘opposite’ one Confused

FFS.

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