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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you all just lay off trans people

742 replies

cjferg · 10/02/2018 17:11

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

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Ostrichnomore · 12/02/2018 16:38

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:40

At least that one isn't dressed in the style that can only be described as Little Bro Peep.

Datun · 12/02/2018 16:41

stoat

I know. It's unbelievable. Because TIMs are now taking over positions in these charities and so getting to dictate policy.

"I contacted them and asked them directly if they would state that they support the right of women to exclusive same sex attraction and after much to and fro they refused,"

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3161638-To-call-to-all-You-have-less-than-a-month-Please-act-now-to-protect-womens-rights?msgid=75572197#75572197

IrianOfW · 12/02/2018 16:41

Hey OP! Are you my DD?

We've had these sort of 'discussions' often,....

Juzza12 · 12/02/2018 16:43

This reply has been deleted

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Valentinesfart · 12/02/2018 16:43

That's terrifying Juzza, still at least he's not a "lesbian". Small mercies ey.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:45

Not a fetish! Gender is an internal feeling that people just have and you're lacking self-awareness if you say otherwise!

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 12/02/2018 16:46

Maybe on the next thread people should just not engage

I think everyone just does it to peak trans lurkers. And surely being that annoying is peak transing a few too? And that's kind of why I don't get it... unless it's deliberate?

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:48

Maybe it's like the thing from The Sixth Sense.

"I see annoying people. They don't know they're annoying."

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 16:53

Stonewall no longer recognise same sex attraction in females?

Wow, but not that surprised.

Their literature already described lesbian as same ^gender" attracted.

While gay (men) do get to be same sex attracted.

Stonewall is no longer working for the LGB and in the case of lesbians is actively against them.

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 16:53

Botom line is no-one expects a gay man to want to fuck a cunt.

Lots of people (men) expect women to fuck who they are told.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 12/02/2018 16:54

Stonewall no longer recognise same sex attraction in females?

What now?

Anything i could read on that

What the hell is wrong with some people...or stonewall in particular

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 16:57

Stonewall actual definitions - was nearly there but not quite:

"Lesbian – refers to a woman who has an emotional, romantic and/or sexual orientation towards women."

"Gay – refers to a man who has an emotional, romantic and/or sexual orientation towards men. Also a generic term for lesbian and gay sexuality - some women define themselves as gay rather than lesbian."

OH

they'ev changed it

Men now DO have to stick their cocks in vaginas, even if they're gay.

Poor BI people though have to be open to fucking literally anyone:
"Bi / bisexual - refers to an emotional and/or sexual orientation towards more than one gender."

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 16:58

Also, what's this "emotional orientation" stuff?

Do they mean romantic, as in fancying?

I have literally no idea what an "emotional orientation" means when it comes to sexuality.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:59

Google split attraction model, Tumblr is full of the stuff.

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:00

Oh

Heterosexuality no longer exists though

"Heterosexual / straight - refers to a person who has an emotional, romantic and/or sexual orientation towards people of the opposite gender"

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:03

They've updated their glossary recently I think

Gay men are now as obsolete as lesbians, also there's no such things as heteroSEXuality or homoSEXuality.

This one is weird:

"Sexual orientation – a person’s emotional, romantic and/or sexual attraction to another person."

That is literally not even slightly what sexual orientation means. I think some semi literate kids are writing their glossary and just changing it at will. And that's where we end up when words have no real meaning any more.

Ostrichnomore · 12/02/2018 17:03

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 17:04

What I keep asking is, OK, let's pretend that we believe this stuff. Apparently you can't know what someone's gender identity is until they tell you, since it's not about bodies and trans people don't have to dress any particular way you bigots. So how do you know who you're meant to be attracted to? Is it now impossible to spot someone across a crowded room and fancy then, since you can't know their gender? If you think it's one thing and they later tell you it's another are you meant to stop fancying them, or to change your orientation?

Juzza12 · 12/02/2018 17:04

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Ostrichnomore · 12/02/2018 17:05

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UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:05

angry - yes I've heard of the sex / romance thing "aromatic greysexual" etc etc

But not "emotional orientation" before. Google gives me nothing on it either. I think the stonewall kids meant romantic and have put the wrong thing Confused

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 17:08

Apparently they think that you can be physically attracted to people of one sex and "emotionally" attracted to people of the other (or the same, or both). So they've separated "want to shag" from "want to date", basically, and instead of it working in the "he's pretty hot but not enough to go out with, maybe a quick shag" like most people would it's oh I fall deeply in love with women but only want to shag men.

I feel like understanding the concept "best friend" might help them to be a bit less confused.

UpABitLate · 12/02/2018 17:09

Ostrich no it's OK I'm bang up for it as a pansexual bigender monday-romantic I am good to go for both a nice meal and hot sex today.

I don't actually need to see what you look like or anything Smile

link

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 17:10

Also "asexual" now seems to mean "is not literally Gene Simmons", since anyone who doesn't want to shag randoms the moment they meet them is somehow not-sexual.

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