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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Can you all just lay off trans people

742 replies

cjferg · 10/02/2018 17:11

There is a difference between sex and gender. Some people's align, other people's don't. Some people are biologically female, and their gender doesn't match that and vies versa. Some people don't have a gender. Why do you care so much?

One of my best friends in school was biologically a female. When he 'came out' to me as trans and explained how he had never felt comfortable in his body all I thought (and anyone who knew him) was that I wasn't surprised and that it made a lot of sense and we all got on with our lives. This was about age 17 and he said he had known this since he was a kid (not saying that any kid who says they want to should be able to willy nilly block their hormones, etc, btw)
It wasn't just about 'presenting as a male'. He was actually a male in a female body.
Yes, when he started presenting as male he felt a lot better. I remember he didn't want to go to our prom because of all the dressing up, etc. until we suggested he wear a tux, and it was amazing to see him so comfortable.
But still he hated having tits and having to wear a binder (can be done safely if you get a proper binder and don't just use bandages or w/e so don't even start)
It wasn't enough to just stuff the front of the trousers.
I repeat, he was a man trapped in a woman's body. Not just a cross dressing woman, not just in an experimental phase.

I have another friend who is biologically a female but they don't have a gender. They are known as 'they' not 'he'or 'she' and knowing them you would in no way think that they are either male or female, again not just about looking a certain way.

I also see a lot of people on here ranting about trans people and they literally only care about transwomen. Genuinely, what has happend to you that you feel so threatened at the thought of someone with a penis being the same gender as you?

Stop ranting about how men are going to use it as an excuse to perv on your kid in a changing room. I'd bet quite a lot that more women will perv on your kid in a changing room than men pretending to be trans will.

Gender is evolving all the time there are no definitive rules to being a man or a woman.

For every thing that you think being a woman is, there will be a woman who disagrees with you.
You say that being a woman means having a uterus - does that make people who've had theirs removed for medical reasons not women?

If being a woman means the ability to have babies then does that mean infertile women aren't women?

If you think being a man is the ability to grow facial hair does that mean that men who can't aren't men?

I read about a woman who had poly cystic ovaries and had a luxurious, thick beard and moustache as a result. Does that mean she is a man or less of a woman? Or should she have continued to try and shave and wax it off and be ashamed of it rather than accept herself the way she was and rock the beard?

Seriously, we've come a long way from being a woman meaning you're your husband's property and having to squirt out babies and clean your whole life. Why are you so determined to go backwards?

Stop using the teeny possibility of a man pretending to be trans to invade women's spaces as a vehicle for your hatred and open your mind enough to at least try and understand the issue, because it might be your kid. It might be your dad. It might be your bff 4eva. If that were the case would you ostracise them from your life and declare them a fraud, or have a little empathy and try and support them through something potentially life changing.

drops mic

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RatRolyPoly · 12/02/2018 16:00

Heavens Juzza, do go back and reread.

UpstartCrow · 12/02/2018 16:02

Capitulation on this wont be the end point for women.

Its up to the people who want the change to prove its safe and workable, for us.

Juzza12 · 12/02/2018 16:03

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 12/02/2018 16:06

About the cotton ceiling, it is NOT just a few nutters on twitter.

Every single one of my lesbian friends has had issues with men claiming they are women, telling them they are bigots for being..well..lesbians. One was assaulted for turning down dick

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3146166-Transactivism-and-the-lesbian-community?msgid=75404528

Read this^

This is whats going on. This is transact5ivism and the natural conclusion of 'transwomen are women'.

Its gross, its misogynistic, its homophobic, and it is abusive to children. But yeah, lets just try and find some compromise with these idiots?

You know, most actual transsexual people are fine with things the way they are? They are not the ones who will benefit from this whole thing. The only people that will benefit are predatory/abusive men and fetishists. The whole transagenda is bad for women, children and transsexual people. I genuinely do not get how anyone can support it.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:06

A feeling is, I'm horny right now, or I'm feeling cuddly which may lead to sex. Sexual orientation is not a feeling. Feelings change from moment to moment, for most people orientation is fairly static despite the constant attempts from pushy assholes of various kinds to enforce the idea that it's fluid (which usually means, touch my penis or I'll whine a lot).

Gay people in particular would really like it if straight people would stop calling their orientation a "feeling".

Juzza12 · 12/02/2018 16:06

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Juzza12 · 12/02/2018 16:07

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

RatRolyPoly · 12/02/2018 16:08

Well I'm a bit confused where this is going now to be honest; I thought we'd segued into "why doesn't rat have a clearly defined position? does she have some other agenda", "no, no agenda, she's establishing her position on many things and values debate as an exchange of views to inform this and thought others might do the same" - which is cool - but now it seems I'm a homophobic TRA again Confused

Probably time to put this one to bed for me.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:09

There's a young woman on the GC subreddit who was beaten so badly she was in hospital for a while because she said no to sex with a trans woman. He followed her into a bathroom, tried to rape her, and beat the shit out of her in the process. But no worries, eh, I'm sure that would never happen and we're all making a fuss about nothing.

Datun · 12/02/2018 16:10

rat

Well maybe it would help if you stated what your position actually was.

What parts of the ideology you agree or disagree with. Specifically.

Like prisons, sport, female spaces, the definition of the word woman, the homophobia, self ID, hormone blockers on children, propaganda in schools.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:12

Soon to emerge on a different thread to perform the same endless circle of slippery sealion-y waffling again, no doubt.

If alternately boring and annoying people is a result then yay, go you.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 12/02/2018 16:12

Actually, read this too

twitter.com/fedupfemme

Definitelyh not just the odd idiot who is saying it. This is widespread throughout the 'trans community'. Datun made a huge post about teh abuse lesbians/lesbuian events/etc are getting.

I guess I do not see how anyone can support this kind of behaviour. I know you say you do not support it, but its a huge part of the whole thing. Its this, its the meaning of the word woman, its 'transing' children who would otherwise simply be gay, and its colonising womens spaces, and finding any excuse to physically attack women too.

As I say, transsexuals do not want this. They just want to live their own lives in peace. Every transsexual person I have spoke to both IRL and on the net say they disagree with transactivists behaviour, and do not see how transactivists demands will actually benefit them at all. So if it won't benefit transsexuals (who have been using female spaces for years now)..then those who support it all are just supporting homophobia and misogyny, along with child abuse. While making out its progressive and 'nice'. Fuck that.

Backenette · 12/02/2018 16:13

The linking of trans rights with LGB rights is a major error in my opinion.

Equal rights for LGB people don’t detract from the rest of society. If two women get married, that doesn’t affect my marriage to a man, it just equals the playing field.

What TRAs are trying to do now would be as if LGB communities had demanded same sex marriage be the only option and banned straight marriage.

The extension of equal rights to LGB people is simple the right thing to do. Byvtacking he trans agenda on it it allows the TRAd to scream homophobia, when opposition to self is is anything but. TRAd are particularly dangerous to lesbians as has been outlined above.

Backenette · 12/02/2018 16:13

So many typos. Sorry. Fat tired fingers and a toddler hanging off me

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:16

In terms of both the gay rights movement and liberal feminism trans activism is basically a parasite that's slowly but surely killing its host.

Ostrichnomore · 12/02/2018 16:17

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

StoatofDisarray · 12/02/2018 16:22

Datun That was a grim summary, and I'm bookmarking it. I didn't know about Stonewall refusing to acknowledge homosexuality as same sex attraction. WTAF.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:23

I've seen people try to reframe orientation as the painfully clunky "attraction preferences" too, which again is designed to make it sound like those preferences are not particularly solid and could easily be changed. It tends to go along with demands that one "examine" one's preferences to see why one isn't interested in shagging the person making the demand, and if you still don't want to, well, clearly you haven't "examined" enough yet.

In reality a preference is, I like rather slender men whereas my friend likes beefy men with bulging muscles, not I'm attracted to both men and women while my friend is only attracted to men. Hair length/style/color? Preference. Male or female body? Orientation.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 12/02/2018 16:25

Soon to emerge on a different thread to perform the same endless circle of slippery sealion-y waffling again, no doubt.

God this.

I don't understand what it's FOR

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:26

Kink for frustrating people in a non-sexual way? Really strange hobby? Who the fuck knows?

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 12/02/2018 16:28

Yeah. Maybe. Is it supposed to achieve something though? Other than making everyone sigh and roll their eyes right out of their heads?

TallulahWaitingInTheRain · 12/02/2018 16:28

it garners a lot of (female) attention

Juzza12 · 12/02/2018 16:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 12/02/2018 16:35

Ah. Okay. We're back to mummy ishoos?

Yuckity yuck yuck.

AngryAttackKittens · 12/02/2018 16:35

Maybe on the next thread people should just not engage. Starving trolls does work sometimes.

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