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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

OP posts:
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13
Fairenuff · 08/02/2018 22:22

Yeah, it's the male penis people don't want in the female changing rooms. I thought everyone understood that?

LynetteScavo · 08/02/2018 22:24

*May I ask what the posters who have the opposite views to the OP, this question -

If a transgender male is biologically a woman, but has a penis (not a proper penis but a penis still), should they be allowed into female changing rooms?

They are after all biologically a woman*

If a man has their penis surgically I have no problem with them using women's changing rooms/toilets.

Why would a transgendered make want to use a women's room changing? Surely they'd want to use the men's? And I'm yet to meet a man who has ever felt threatened by a woman using the men's changing room, especially a woman with a small penis.

DropItLikeASquat · 08/02/2018 22:24

Actually Myunicorn they are anatomically and therefor biologically male.

Myunicornfliessideways · 08/02/2018 22:28

Sorry Dropit , confused - who are?

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 08/02/2018 22:30

Actually Myunicorn they are anatomically and therefor biologically male.

Transmen are biologically female; transwomen are biologically male. Cosmetic surgery cannot change chromosomes.

HairyBallTheorem · 08/02/2018 22:32

Who is anatomically and therefore biologically male?

A visually approximate simulacrum of the opposite sex's genitalia (a neo vagina or articifial penis constructed from tissue taken from the arm or abdomen) doesn't turn you into someone who is anatomically the opposite sex to the one you started out as.

A transwoman may have a neo vagina, but they lack the muscles supporting it, the cervix, the uterus, the ovaries. They will still have the narrow hips and broad shoulders of a man. A transman may have a neo-penis, but they don't have the testicular tissue, the prostate. They will still have the wider pelvis of a woman.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 08/02/2018 22:32

If a transgender male is biologically a woman, but has a penis (not a proper penis but a penis still), should they be allowed into female changing rooms?

I think you have mixed your terminologies up.

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2018 22:36

@RatRolyPoly "I've written and rewritten this post but I'm afraid I just haven't put in the thinking time necessary to articulate my position."

That's OK why think along with us.

"I don't want to start just speaking off the cuff before I'm quite clear in my own mind. Is that okay?" Of course, because whatever you say is your point of view, until you change it, which is also fine.

"But I can tell you in my world we wholeheartedly reject externally-imposed gender stereotypes" That's good, so do I.

As gender is a social construct it doesn't matter too much to me if these gender stereotypes are externally or internally imposed.

snowflakeespecial.tumblr.com/post/114684943185/social-construct-masterpost

"...we believe in the immutability of biological sex." (who is the we?)

I too believe in biological sex.

"We also believe transgender women and men when they tell us they are women or men. We believe them."

I know later you say you don't think they are biologically men or women so what exactly do you believe? That they really believe they are men or women? But without a biological definition, what does it mean?

"And if that means our world view is insufficient, well, there's no point holding a fairy in your hands and screaming at it that it can't exist."

No one on here is denying trans people the right to exist. I've not seen a single post that says trans people should not exist.

"And as for how to approach this regarding women, we do not prioritise those individuals above women. But we prioritise human decency over men and women, because what would any of us have if first we abandoned that."

Decency is indeed a noble thing, we all need that.

I don't want to deny that of people.

Don't you think the trans woman who was born a male, married a woman and had children, and then transitioned, and now tells me there is no such thing as female biology, is denying me (as a female) my decency?

Italiangreyhound · 08/02/2018 22:39

That's OK why not think along with us - I mean why not think and type and we are all learning together, I hope.

CertainHalfDesertedStreets · 08/02/2018 22:55

...or sealions??

Grin Yes. That. Star

generalleiaorgana · 08/02/2018 23:04

Too many posts to read but I agree with the OP - the transphobia on this website is shocking. A penis is just that, a penis, a sex organ, not an indicator of gender and if you can't get your head around that I suggest you repeat it to yourself daily until you do.

TellsEveryoneRealFacts · 08/02/2018 23:07

A penis is just that, a penis, a sex organ, not an indicator of gender

Yes it is an indicator of sex. Well done, you are a TERF.

OvaHere · 08/02/2018 23:10

We also segregate certain spaces on the basis of sex not gender. That's the whole point.

WitchIwasaWitch18 · 08/02/2018 23:11

Trouble is with this little sex organ called a penis is it comes attached to a bulky, muscular body with hormones and impulses inclining it to be attracted to smaller bodies with vaginas and sometimes forcing its way inside them whether welcome or not.

All the OP has done for me is turn me into a terf instead of innocently knitting and cooking tea.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 08/02/2018 23:11

A penis is not an indicator of gender because gender doesn't exist. A penis is, however, an indicator of sex and more specifically, the male sex.

PidgeonPodge · 08/02/2018 23:13

'A penis is just that, a penis, a sex organ, not an indicator of gender'

'Yes it is an indicator of sex. Well done, you are a TERF.'

Grin

Someone didn't check their Terf levels before waving their shining virtue.

Lemonjello · 08/02/2018 23:13

generalleiaorgana

I don’t want to be brainwashed into a cult so I’ll pass on the mantra chanting for the moment, thanks.

Elderslie · 08/02/2018 23:13

“Repeat it to yourself daily until you do”

epic

“I have a Mercedes”
“I have a million pounds in the bank”
“I am Meghan Markle”

Grin
busyboysmum · 08/02/2018 23:13

Interesting first post generalleiaorgana. Do you want to say that one more time just so it penetrates?

Frequency · 08/02/2018 23:14

generalleiaorgana how do you feel about people with working penis' being locked up with vulnerable people with vaginas?

Or about the abuse of Rose McGowen?

Or the erosion of women by TRAs who want to ban the discussion of female anatomy and bodily functions because it is exclusive.

Those are the issues being discussed on MN. No-one on MN has stated that they give a single fuck about be-penised people wearing dresses, calling themselves Mary and behaving in a stereotypical (although often cartoonish and exaggerated) feminine way.

Though, one could argue that their cartoonish and exaggerated portrayal of femininity is itself misogynistic and problematic.

NauticalDisaster · 08/02/2018 23:15

Paraphrasing here but "I won't read anything you wrote but it's transphobic and disgusting" WTF, how are we even supposed to engage with that? Pathetic.

And you are correct, a penis is nit indicative of gender. Gender us bullshit. A penis is a male sexual organ, that's it.

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 08/02/2018 23:15

Love how all the people calling transphovia always ignore the trans posters and the patents of trans children on these threads. Do they actually give a shit about trans people or do they just want to appear hip and right on?

busyboysmum · 08/02/2018 23:18

I think those people are not the right kind of trans Please 😁

PleaseDontGoadTheToad · 08/02/2018 23:18

*transphobia
*parents

Pluvia · 30/04/2022 08:20

1000, I hope.

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