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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Disgusted by all the transphobia here

1000 replies

MikePeterson · 04/02/2018 16:12

A very good friend of mine and a long time poster here has spent most of her day crying because this fresh wave of transphobia in a community she thought she was welcome in has finally broken her spirits. After obtaining her permission, I am posting this because it needs to be said.

She is a woman with a penis and has identified as such since she was old enough to understand the concept of gender. Being female is part of her identity but so is her body, such as it is and untouched by surgery and artificial hormones. She is a beautiful individual and, to my eye, presents a much more feminine image than, ironically, Linda Bellos and several of her fellow bigots.

Arguing that, because of potential past trauma involving males, causing seeing a penis or even an individual likely to be in possession of a penis to be triggering is justification for segregation is as absurd as it is offensive. Would it be acceptable for a woman who was the victim of a violent crime commuted by a particular ethnic minority to demand that all members of that race be segregated in changing rooms and domestic violence shelters? Of course not.

Equally ludicrous is the claim that transgender women somehow had the privilege of living as a man. Cisgendered women are light years ahead of transgender women in terms of privilege and if you wish to continue denying this, you are no better than the most vile male misogynists.

Finally, think about how disrespectful you are being to all women, you are reducing all the wonderful differences between the genders to what someone has between their legs. The same feminist ancestors who fought for your right to vote, to be regarded as more than domestic servants and baby machines would spit on you for your intolerance.

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RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 20:03

Fairenuff I was responding to this exact comment from another poster, and only to state I thought it is more akin to "straight" than "gay" in the context given. Actually reading the quote it's more like a derogatory word for straight, only I don't know any; I'm sure some exist. No word used to slur another is okay by me.

I also have a problem with someone like myself a straight woman that is biologically a woman being called CIS gendered. Its become an offensive term in the trans and 'gender fluid' community and I see it as no different to calling a gay person a 'fag' or 'dyke' or such like.

BronwenFrideswide · 08/02/2018 20:05

Well Rat MNHQ didn't think Jude's post added to the debate, also if you had read my post correctly I did say taken apart from what else was said.

There isn't a poster on here who wouldn't welcome an outside perspective, one that argues clearly and coherently and can be discussed and debated rationally - insults, faux outrage and a flounce hardly provide that.

Juzza12 · 08/02/2018 20:05

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Terftastic · 08/02/2018 20:08

RatRolyPoly: I think posters like Jude contribute is an outside perspective, and in an environment like this I think that should be heard.

Well MNHQ don't agree. Jude's comment has been deleted for breaking site guidelines. It was downright offensive and untrue.

Fairenuff · 08/02/2018 20:09

I thought it is more akin to "straight" than "gay" in the context given

Yes, I know.

But, as I've said, your statement doesn't compare.

No-one goes around saying they're straight. I don't refer to myself as a 'straight' woman. Therefore, it's unlikely that real women would refer to themselves as cis women.

And, as I said, even if they did, transwomen would be wanting that title too.

SimonBridges · 08/02/2018 20:14

I have no issue with transgender people nor with any sexuality and dysphoria suffers have my greatest sympathy. My only issue is with trans rights activists whose misogynistic goal is to erase women completely.

This. Exactly this.

HairyBallTheorem · 08/02/2018 20:18

It's not about not ever having the need to say "I am straight." I remember a jokey conversation with a friend of mine who was agonising about whether she had to be a bit less butch in order to attract the woman she'd fallen for (now her wife Grin). She said "talk to me about epilation", and I looked at my beautiful furry legs and said "I think you're asking the wrong straight woman..."

My objection to "cis" is that I am told it means someone whose gender aligns with their biological sex. Since I experience gender as an oppressive set of stereotypes inflicted on me rather than an internal feeling of womanliness (whatever that would consist in), I object to being told my gender aligns with anything, because gender is an artificial social construct.

BronwenFrideswide · 08/02/2018 20:18

There is no need for 'cis' as has been eloquently argued on this and other threads, I am not and will not accept adding a prefix to my sex.

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 20:18

Yes, well she was rather explicit and she did call everyone twats. I wish she hadn't. But can you see how some people are reacting to this? The knee-jerk reaction of normal people with no axe to grind?

HairyBallTheorem · 08/02/2018 20:20

If Jude12345 or whatever number it was is a "normal person" I will be very surprised. More like a keyboard warrior who saw a reference to MN on twitter or somewhere similar and thought he/she'd pop over here for a good old troll.

Fekko · 08/02/2018 20:20

She? I thought it was Mikes mate.

Fairenuff · 08/02/2018 20:21

Mike's mate? Hell, I thought it was Mike.

Fekko · 08/02/2018 20:21

Awwww. Has he no mates then?

Fairenuff · 08/02/2018 20:22

He has the crying one in the mirror.

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 20:23

I'm telling you, there are Judes aplenty out there! I got a few of my friends to check out mn lately for one reason or another ("check out this AIBU" usually) and guess what... all Judes. Not everyone in a state of moral panic who doesn't want to argue is a troll.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/02/2018 20:23

Jude the obscure

Fairenuff · 08/02/2018 20:25

I got a few of my friends to check out mn lately for one reason or another

You don't say...

WiseUpJanetWeiss · 08/02/2018 20:25

My objection to "cis" is that I am told it means someone whose gender aligns with their biological sex. Since I experience gender as an oppressive set of stereotypes inflicted on me rather than an internal feeling of womanliness (whatever that would consist in), I object to being told my gender aligns with anything, because gender is an artificial social construct.

Brilliantly put.

thebewilderness · 08/02/2018 20:25

Rat, your dishonesty is only exceeded by your arrogance.
We recognize verbal abuse. The fact that you find it "normal" to verbally abuse women speaks to who you are.

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 20:26

LOL, yeah, perfectly normal "pass you in the street" women don't feel like this, right? This is why you need that reality check.

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 20:26

My dishonesty. Right.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 08/02/2018 20:26

the knee-jerk reaction of normal people with no axe to grind?

Same as loads of women on these types of threads

Doesnt seem to stop ploppers calling everyone rude names

HairyBallTheorem · 08/02/2018 20:27

I think that could say a lot about the fact that people tend to form friendships with people who share similar views. With my friends, whenever the subject of trans has been broached (usually cautiously because we are mostly liberal lefties who are all too aware of the fact that we are being deeply "un-Guardian" on this issue), there's this moment of "WTAF, you think this is mad too!"

Possibly because we're all old enough to have children or if not, gone through our careers dealing with men's expectations that we will have children, so we recognise women being shafted simply for being women when we see it.

Oh, and having school age children, some of whom are gender-non-conforming is enough to give all of us the chills at the thought of what might end up happening to our children.

TheGoalIsToStayOutOfTheHole · 08/02/2018 20:29

Nah. Mikes (imaginary) mate spent the entire day crying as we were all huge meanings for knowing biology. No way they would suddenly get the (ahem) balls to stand up to us scary woman and call us twats too!

RatRolyPoly · 08/02/2018 20:29

It's not "knee jerk" on here though is it, it's normal on here. That's what I'm saying, it looks far from normal from the outside looking in! I'm not passing judgement on that or anyone on here, I'm just saying Jude et al is a tangible reality.

Totally not okay to name call, don't dispute that at all.

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