M&S changing room policy

[iamawoman]

Apparently to allow any transperson in to which changing room they feel most comfortable. This is mentioned today as a transperdon was refused access to changing staff prob because they didnt look like the SEX of the changing room they wished to enter 🙄

Currently India (and three blokes) arguing this on channel five

To be fair the lady doing the phone-in is pretty ambivalent as well.

Just been watching TWS and honestly it was infuriating.

Of course non of them see the issue, they are men! Would have been more appropriate to have a woman on the panel when discussing this issue rather than a sea of xy chromosomes.

Much like our trolly friend and his aching balls, the fact that women exist and may have our own perspective has probably not occurred to any of those men. I mean, why can't they decide for us? They're smart (LOL), aren't they?

Yeah, Datun, it was a little bit like "clothes shopping's a very special thing for a girl; having a man around ruins it

I read it more as "trying to find modern clothes to fit a middle-aged body is enough of a pain in the arse without some fucking man eyeing me off, positively or negatively, whilst I'm looking over my shoulder to see if my bum bulges in that."

but the kind of men who use the Marks & Spencer's changing room, might well feel uncomfortable with a woman using them to validate her identity.

No, absolutely, I appreciate that, I was just commenting on that one line of reasoning. The rest I completely get.

And again on the TV coverage, to be fair they have men commenting on a transman not being allowed to use a men's changing room, so it kind of make sense.

Why the fuck should we have to justify not wanting males about when we are getting undressed? Because validation is required for males wearing traditionally feminine clothing. So fed up with this shit.

I will boycott M&S too. Fuck them. And will start wearing men's clothes. If we all started doing this the TIMs would be mightily fucked off.

You see YetAnother I understand the male anatomy/threat argument, but I don't understand that one. Isn't that the same as the argument of feeling uncomfortable changing around homosexuals? Or am I misunderstanding?

..it was a transman denied access to the men's. Does that make a difference?

Of course it's all about validation. They don't want unisex change rooms because that spoils all the fun of "passing".

RatRolyPoly

Yeah, Datun, it was a little bit like "clothes shopping's a very special thing for a girl; having a man around ruins it".

Oh God, no. That's absolutely not what I meant.

I find clothes buying tedious in the extreme.

I always do it solo and hate going with anyone else.

But, because I have the top of Jane Mansfield and the bottom of a prepubescent boy, it's very difficult.

And takes an irritating amount of time for me to get anything to fit.

It's a 'job' that has to be done as infrequently as possible.

It's a get in, and get out, as quickly as possible experience.

The bloody last thing I would want is the added irritation of deflecting the shenanigans of a man wanting my validation. Because he is having 'fun'.

And I do realise, of course, there are very many young girls who do view it as a bonding exercise and something fun to do.

They shouldn't be co-opted into someone else's coercive experience either.

What was a transman? And no, females should not be allowed in male spaces either. They are also entitled to bodily autonomy, funnily enough.

A third space is the solution - who whadda thunk it?

but what if you appear really masculine but you are in fact a biological woman?

Really they have to take it on what people say because what are they gonna do demand to see peoples genitals??

Isn't that the same as the argument of feeling uncomfortable changing around homosexuals? Or am I misunderstanding?

To be honest I'd be more comfortable changing around a homosexual than a transwoman.

Because homosexuals are not getting off on forcing me to validate them.

But no, I don't want any man in there, homosexual, trans, decent, or otherwise.

but what if you appear really masculine but you are in fact a biological woman?

Most people simply don't pass.

As evidenced by the fact that this woman was questioned. She didn't pass.

If you truly pass, no one will ask.

Currently India (and three blokes) arguing this on channel five. Unsurprisingly none of them can see a problem

I just watched this and it was infuriating. And when a woman rang in and said she felt safe in those changing rooms and wouldn’t feel safe if trans women were allowed in, IW told her there had never been any incidents of anything awful happening, it was all a “tabloid conspiracy”

Is anyone on Twitter? Could they please tweet The Wright Show and IW about The Target incidents in the US?

"Of course it's all about validation. They don't want unisex change rooms because that spoils all the fun of "passing"."

Also, if the vast majority of trans people pass, there wouldn't be an issue. It would still be deception, women and girls would still be at risk, but unless they are caught doing something wrong, no-one would know.

It shows that 'most trans pass as the opposite sex' is another trans lie.

You do know a trans women is more likely to be attacked than attack someone

Source? Because if I went to the BBC news site right now, I bet I'd find more articles of transwomen attacking than being attacked.

and if someone is pretending to be trans

How do I tell if someone's pretending to be trans?

to get access then they are the issue and would try anyway tm so why attack trans people?

It's not attacking trans people to request that they respect that changing rooms are segregated on sex, not on gender. There are changing rooms of equal quality for both males and females, so this is not a situation where there is discrimination.

Datun but there may be some actual women who were born women who look and dress masculine?? I mean how is this actually going to be policed is my point? Without massively upsetting loads of trans and sis people?

You do know a trans women is more likely to be attacked than attack someone

In the UK, more transwomen have murdered, then have been murdered.

Statistically, a man who transitions stand less chance of being murdered than he did before.

but what if you appear really masculine but you are in fact a biological woman?

I think what she means is if I have an unexpected amount of facial hair, a more prominent than usual adam's apple and a less than "womanly" figure - but am in fact a woman - what happens when I queue to use a women's changing room? Am I going to be stripped to prove I'm female?

So let me get this straight.

To prevent one masculine woman feeling uncomfortable on the off chance that she is challenged means that we should let ANY self identified male into the changing rooms?

Stop being disingenuous, this is not about those few woman, this is about the males

Of course it's all about validation. They don't want unisex change rooms because that spoils all the fun of "passing".

India Willoughby said pretty much this on Wright Stuff.

And this is the problem with the trans agenda. They don't want compromise, they want us to like it or lump it.

Having a third space for trans/non binary/what ever seems like the perfect solution surely?

I can see the want to 'pass' thing. But the guy in my M&S queue clearly had made not much effort at all to 'pass', given his foundation was scrubbed into his half inch long beard. And he seemed intent on drawing attention to himself with all the dramatic sighing. Perhaps he got off on seeing us all rooted to spot with embarrassment.

Isn't that the same as the argument of feeling uncomfortable changing around homosexuals? Or am I misunderstanding

Yes. You are misunderstanding me. I simply want privacy from the male gaze. I'd prefer not to be 'looked over' in a 'gaze' or 'sexual sense' by women either, but to the best of my knowledge, this is incredibly rare and has certainly never happened to me waits for that poster who always mentions being hit upon by lesbians when naked and other similar fantasies.

Which is why I no longer go into changing rooms or an actual shop. The people this will hurt are the managers, most of them men, as they will loose custom and face the consequences.

I buy online and then return if not suitable. I prefer to try on clothes in the safety of my own house.