Is "cis" the future ?

[matt1978]

I will admit to being new to the topic and still reading but many threads on here have lead me to further reading. I don't think I've ever bothered with the whole feminist thing until now when I see it being threatened by the trans agenda. Im starting to now feel much more protective about women's rights perhaps it's because I'm older or perhaps in my lifetime there's never been a threat to it ? I'm fearful to say even that for being accused of transphobia and I have no issue at all with anyone living their life as they wish - but I have a daughter and am now fearful for the future - will she have safe women only spaces ? Possibly not. Will she have to call herself a cis woman rather than just a woman ?
I dislike the agenda that you cannot debate or disagree or you're a bigot . It seems so backwards and confusing
I feel ignorant about what's going on out there and would love some insight from better informed posters here .

If someone is attracted to women (or at least not attracted to men), but not turned on by the thought of themself as a woman, that would be a third category.

That would indeed be a third category. And definitely not one that Blanchard identified.

Although, from memory, I think he did say that transitioning will often either lower the libido, or over time, it becomes less important?

He's written again, recently, about causes of gender dysphoria. I might have to take another look at that.

See, I listen to my teenagers sometimes!

I thought I'd try to get this weeks' terminology right before I found my self on the Wrong Side of History again, which will doubtless be next week.

And probably called panromantic ace transgender or something by someone under 25.

So no gender dysphoria then?

Just another thing
(for want of a better word)

My problem with "cis" is that it provides justification for treating women badly.

Here's the Stonewall glossary: www.stonewall.org.uk/help-advice/glossary-terms

Trans: an umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.

Gender: often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth.

Trans covers a lot of people these days, not just transsexuals. It certainly covers me (am I FUCK comfortable with the culturally determined assumptions made about me from my sex at birth). It covers all of those feminists described as TERFs. It covers every woman who thinks that the culturally determined assumptions of their era are bullshit - from the Suffragettes to anti-porn campaigners.

And it redefines women - "cis" women, "real" women - as being those who ARE comfortable with cultural constraints. Which means that we're back to those constraints being innate in some way which provides ample justification for continued oppression. Women are oppressed because of culturally determined gender, with which "cis" women IDENTIFY. If you don't identify with it then you're not a woman at all.

I'm a lesbian (the short-haired hairy-pitted type), and this isn't the first time I've heard "you're not a real woman" "what sort of woman are you" etc. It's just that now we call this "progress."

Great post, WiggyPig. You articulate it very well.

I can never quite get my point across on why I hate cis so much to people who think it's a neutral descriptor.

Yy, WiggyPig

It's interesting how often the TRA discourse can be picked apart by thinking about what is often said about lesbians: that they don't look / act like "real women", that by leaving men out of their sexual desires they are man-haters etc etc. And then we see that it's the same old shit that has been doled out for ever, it's just a new vessel for doing it.

I haven't read Blanchard for ages, but how does your friend's experience differ from what he said? Is it because your friend doesn't fit the homosexual transsexual category, because he's not homosexual?

I think because the motivation was body hatred.

No sexual motivation so not really Blanchardian (not turned on by self as woman or external validation as woman, so not AGP; not sexually attracted to straight men, so not HSTS either).

Also doesn't fit with the genderist framework - no belief in having some kind of ineffable woman's soul or essence.

Just a deep hatred for their own male body that years of therapy did nothing to abate.

To add - and the only "trans right" they are interested in is the right to have nobody notice them at all.

I feel incredibly sorry for those who just wanted to quietly go about their lives.

Just a deep hatred for their own male body that years of therapy did nothing to abate.

But presenting as a woman alleviates the symptoms?

Isn't that the old style transsexual? They don't insist they are actually women, or have a female brain. They just find presenting as women diminishes the dysphoria.

This isn't meant to be goady, btw. I'm genuinely trying to understand the different types.

But presenting as a woman alleviates the symptoms?

Isn't that the old style transsexual? They don't insist they are actually women, or have a female brain. They just find presenting as women diminishes the dysphoria.

I think "not presenting as a man" is more accurate? A fine distinction I know, but a real one. Doesn't present feminine any more than I do.

Yes to the old school transsexual. This person is in their 50s and transitioned a very, very, very long time ago.

(Sorry if I'm being a bit vague. Very private person and would not much want to see themselves discussed in public.)

I know the type of person you're talking about LangCleg they need protecting from this movement as much as. There really needs to be a legal distinction made between old style transsexuals and absolute wankers, they have absolutely nothing in common.

Excellent post wiggypig - sums up exactly what i detest about the cis label - that and its mostly used by self loathing / loving misogynists

I hate "Assigned" as much as "Cis".
It feels 1984ish as though somewhere there is the People's Central Bureau of Assigners.
Who are the assigners?

I think assigned has come from intersex where a sex was genuinely assigned based on what the person looked like

Thank you for explaining Italiangreyhound.
That is a particular case for the use of the word then, where a doctor or parents probably try to decide.

Saying all gender is "assigned" under normal circumstances is not OK imo

YY it's a reasonable term in the context of intersex people.

@WildWindsBlowing yes sex is identified or perhaps more accurately observed by anyone present when a baby us born, or sometimes even beforehand!

Do people who oppose the word cis, also want to drop the word straight in favour of "normal"?

Identifying, as in identifying rose plant as distinct from a lettuce plant, is different from 'assigning' a rose as a rose rather than 'assigning' it as a lettuce.

So I do not like the word 'assigned' being used the way it is often seems to be used in the context of people's gender.

As I said though I completely see that this word is valid in the context of an intersex child being given a gender.

Greendress123

No. Why would they ?

If I need to go for a smear test, I don't expect my surgery to divide that category into straight women's smear tests and gay women's smear tests.

I think it important to differentiate between that which we call ourselves and labels applied to us against our will.
Normal is usually used by the mentally ill when discussing and comparing so I think that would be confusing. If you call yourself straight you are referencing your sexuality. If you call yourself normal you are saying something entirely different.
Trans advocates have appropriated intersex language as well as Crenshaws language of intersectionality to promote their interests. In spite of being asked by intersex people and black women not to do so.

I think I should have said sex rather than gender before.

I am a human woman. I am not an isomer so I am not cis. I have never conformed to the sex roles society dictates and I have suffered for it. This does not make me a trans.
Women are not failed men! Failed men are not women.