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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trans friendly thread!

999 replies

100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 14:43

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me Grin this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

OP posts:
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19
GinAndSonic · 23/01/2018 15:31

Lol @ it being like the backlash against gay people.

Lesbians are being called bigots for not wanting "lady-dick"
I read something online from someone who said that the only non bigoted sexual orientation is pansexuality.

I'm bi, but I am only interested in ACTUAL women and ACTUAL men. Guess I'm just a massive TERF.

Battleax · 23/01/2018 15:31

If you want to start a pro-self-ID thread and not (try to) to testrict it to posters simply agreeing with you, that could be an interesting discussion.

To this day, I haven't heard or read an explanation from a supporter of self-ID as to why they think it makes sense. They just don't say.

DevilTree · 23/01/2018 15:31

So why aren't you answering any of the points politely put to you, 100lbs? Anyone would think you just started this thread just to stir up a reaction...

Flowerpot1234 · 23/01/2018 15:32

100lbtolose

Genuine question: do you think I am mentally sane to personally identify as an electricity pylon? Do you think the world should refer to me as an electricity pylon, and treat me as such, because I say I am one?

BeyondWW · 23/01/2018 15:33

I agree that this thread is here for "evidence" gathering

Probably gonna be added to the secret Stasi folder of labour members who understand science.

JuliannaBixby · 23/01/2018 15:33

Trans rights are a feminist issue.

Ok, does that mean it's an issue for men with dicks who say they're women, or women who say they're men?

Or is it like every other issue in society, in that it becomes part of the load a woman has to carry?

Surely trans rights is a trans issue.

Xenophile · 23/01/2018 15:33

True Datun

I wonder if they'll need to ice a cake, or if it'll be international travel again this time?

grasspigeons · 23/01/2018 15:34

I'm trans friendly

I believe in human rights and the dignity of the human soul (sorry I cant think of any other way to express it than that)

I am happy that different groups of women have different priorities or needs and I will happily promote those needs - but not at the expense of others needs. The only example I can think of is when I was breastfeeding and needed to express at work, the suggestion was I could lock myself in the disabled toilet for 30 minutes rendering it unusable. This wasn't a solution - my need to express v their need to go to the toilet mean that I needed a separate space was needed. The disabled person requesting this wasn't a bigoted anti feminist. They just recognised we had two equally important issues.

BeyondWW · 23/01/2018 15:34
SpartacusReality · 23/01/2018 15:34

Flowerpot I respect your right to identify as an electricity pylon. However that doesn't mean you can stand at the end of my road and run electric cables to every house on the street. Also, please do not electrocute anyone.

Datun · 23/01/2018 15:34

Is the OP still waiting for evidence of transphobia, whilst determinedly not posting?

In case it turns out that boot is rather on the other foot?

BeyondWW · 23/01/2018 15:35

Good analogy, grass

ArbitraryName · 23/01/2018 15:35

Honestly, if you really want a place where no one in anyway questions current trans ideology dogma, you’d be better off on tumblr.

The thing is, questioning is not the same as hate. It just isn’t. It’s perfectly possible to question the basis of transgender ideology without wanting anyone to come to any harm.

I think you’ll find that the vast majority of people you don’t want to engage with (and who you think are bigots ‘on the wrong side of history’) really, really do want to move beyond gendered bullshit. I don’t care what people wear. Or what kind of hair do they have. Or what their hobbies are. Or anything else that is supposedly ‘gendered’. No one should be harmed or threatened for just getting on with their lives.

But the reification of gender within transgender ideology is deeply problematic. And it obscures (and often outright denies) the material realities that contribute to inequalities in society.

I also think there’s a big debate to be had about how quite a lot of transgender ideology actually reflects and reinforces very problematic stigma around mental health issues and homosexuality, among other issues. (Note: I’m not conflating homosexuality and mental health here - just pointing out that transgender ideology is deeply conservative in insisting that actually you must be a boy if you fancy girls, and also in its disgust at the idea that having ideas about your own body that don’t match material reality might be a mental health issue).

But, hey, let’s not talk about any of that distasteful stuff.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 23/01/2018 15:35

Ah the old tactic of refusing to engage or answer questions.

Women have spent centuries being silenced....can you not see the irony in you silencing womens voices again, but in the name of "progress"

Trans allies/activists really can't handle proper debate.

Either refusing to listen/no platforming

Silencing with threats

Silencing by shaming us as bigots

Refusing to answer even the most basic question of all....

What is a woman?

blackdoggotmytongue · 23/01/2018 15:36

hummusscot - i’m glad you and your partner have figured out a way you can live and minimize your feelings of disquiet about your bodies (as I am for anyone who suffers from GD and decides to adopt gender-based lifestyle changes to make their own lives easier). Hopefully you can figure out a way to extend that into a family situation.
Everyone has the right to live their life as they want to. If you and your partner decide that a transman will become a pregnant person and chestfeed, fab. If that’s how you can manage your dysphoria, great.
I reserve the right for a woman to get pregnant and breastfeed, to be referred to as an expectant mother, and not to have to amend her vocabulary.
I hope you don’t feel that anyone on the board hates you or anyone who struggles.
The TRA aim to claim that feminists are hateful is pathetic propaganda.
Feminists don’t want anyone hurt. Including women. Especially women.

BattleCuntGalactica · 23/01/2018 15:37

Totally here for this.

Bollocks to anyone who says it shouldn't be in feminism - this is a feminist issue.

GinAndSonic · 23/01/2018 15:37

And, as stated by several other people, I don't hate trans people. I care no more or no less about what they do than I do anyone else.
Trans people should be able to live their lives safely. But that does NOT include having everyone they meet validate their beliefs, nor does it mean that any disagreement should be framed as hate or violence.

RedToothBrush · 23/01/2018 15:37

Undermining the rights of one group undermines all rights and demonstrates that rights can be destroyed easily.

If you are pro trans rights you need to understand this principle because it protects trans rights too.

GuardianLions · 23/01/2018 15:37

OP is this a safe space for people who identify as transtrans?

Transtranswomen are really marginalised within LGBT there is so much transtransphobia and bigotry.

AssassinatedBeauty · 23/01/2018 15:38

Why, @BattleCuntGalactica ?

Original poster
100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 15:39

I just want to tell yous I'm absolutely not collecting your responses etc and I would never do that! Would be a bit weird for me to say I only wanted pro-trans views if I was trying to collect transphobic comments Hmm still hoping this thread will settle down and just pro-trans views will be put here but may take a while! That's why I'm not engaging! Maybe it's stupid but I'm still hopeful! FlowersFlowersFlowersFlowersFlowers

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Datun · 23/01/2018 15:39

We don't hate transpeople.
We don't hate transpeople.
We don't hate transpeople.

OP, did you know that many transwomen post on here?

Only yesterday a transwomen in their 70s asked for advice
on letter that they were sending to their MP, objecting to self identification.

And a very pleasant transwoman they were.

< didn't like swearing, though which is a bit of a disadvantage on mumsnet >

Battleax · 23/01/2018 15:40

Can you tell us what you mean by "pro-trans"?

RedToothBrush · 23/01/2018 15:40

and just pro-trans views will be put here but may take a while! That's why I'm not engaging! Maybe it's stupid but I'm still hopeful!

Why do you deem my comments not to be pro trans?

Original poster
100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 15:40

@battlecuntgactica hello! Thank you for you're reply! Very happy to have allies Smile And yes it is to fi with feminism!!!!

OP posts: