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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Trans friendly thread!

999 replies

100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 14:43

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me Grin this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

OP posts:
Thread gallery
19
Collidascope · 23/01/2018 15:12

If you really want a "friendly" trans thread, OP, I'd suggest simply ignoring the posts that you don't think fit with the spirit of the thread. By engaging, you're encouraging them.
I actually think it would be good for you to engage with the opinions on here though. I had my opinion changed a year or two ago by reading this section.

VivaLeBeaver · 23/01/2018 15:12

@ginandsonic sometimes you have to stand up for what you think even if the room doesn't want to hear it

I'm sure all the gender critical feminists on MN will feel the same about this thread.

Battleax · 23/01/2018 15:13

Sorry, x post that was to OP.

Original poster
100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 15:13

@Jessicaeccles since this is my thread and it was clearly titled and u came here to post gou might say it's you invading my post! Also I don't know where I insulted older women and I really didn't mean to so I'm very sorry! It was an accident

OP posts:
DearSergio · 23/01/2018 15:13

My 14 year old neice was also totally pro trans - until a boy in her year came out as a trans girl and my neice had to share a changing room with them. 100lbtolose I wonder, do you think she is transphobic? Does her opinion not matter anymore?

BeyondWW · 23/01/2018 15:13

🍿

UpstartCrow · 23/01/2018 15:13

Silencing women in a feminist board? Please go read The Equality Act.
This isnt Vancouver.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 23/01/2018 15:13

I agree that putting it in the feminist board is very goady

It could be an interesting thread on a different board...or not

and telling people what they are allowed to post is very rude

Battleax · 23/01/2018 15:14

Hum situations where people believe themselves disabled (but aren't) or want to make themselves disabled such as this;

en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_integrity_identity_disorder

jellyfrizz · 23/01/2018 15:14

But you grouped them together as if they belong together. They're three very different things.

Yes! I'm not anti-trans, I believe that anyone should be able to identify as whatever gender they like (or none at all), I can happily say lots of positive things about trans people - but I don't agree with self-ID so can't post by your rules which is a shame because a positive thread about trans people would be great.

RebeccaWrongDaily · 23/01/2018 15:14

maybe go and post this on the Labour Party forum? they'll lap this shit up.

ArbitraryName · 23/01/2018 15:15

I would never support trans-ablism

Why not?

hummusscot · 23/01/2018 15:15

@Battleax Interesting. Not sure how that fits into the trans debates though! It's a separate issue.

LanaKanesLeftNippleTassle · 23/01/2018 15:16

I am sooo not "anti trans" I fully support anyones right to wear what they like, live as they like, with the same freedoms as everyone else.

I have spent a large part of my life involved in activism for environmental issues, animal rights, anti fascist groups, and importantly here,womens rights and LGB rights.

I cannot fight for these people......doesn't that tell you something??

What I definitely don't agree with, is the commandeering of womens spaces in order to validate their feelings.

Women who have been raped and abused have a right to spaces away from penises, even if that penis identifys as a "lady penis"

Please answer this question honestly...and don't
Domyou think it's r

Datun · 23/01/2018 15:16

100lbtolose

You're not making any sense.

If you want to start a thread where trans people can talk about being trans, and trans-allies can support them, do it on the LGBT section.

If you want to put your point across to feminists. Then do it.

Don't sit there and hope for a whole bunch of feminists to come on and talk in favour of transgenderism.

At most, you will get one or two people agreeing with you, but not backing it up.

And all the feminists disagreeing with you, and backing it up.

It's a pointless thread for the outcome you have expressed.

RedToothBrush · 23/01/2018 15:16

Your OP suggests that you are automatically anti-trans if you don't agree with self ID.

WELL THAT IS BULLSHIT.

The entire premise of this thread is to perpetuate that fallacy.

Self ID isnt necessarily in the best interests of people who are trans. Indeed there are many trans people who are against it.

What should they do?

Fuck off your thread too, for not following the approved line?

Sorry but this is a conflation of ideas. Deliberately so.

hummusscot · 23/01/2018 15:17

God this is a sad thread.

blackdoggotmytongue · 23/01/2018 15:17

Welcome to ‘feminism’ (lol). There are probably a few books you should read before you get too comfy (lol).
At work I have to pair students for bedroom sharing and put people with working penises in beds two feet away from people who can pregnant, because the penis owners ticked the gender: woman box. The person capable of being impregnated (usually a foot shorter) has no right to object. It makes her a bigot.
On Monday I have a mandatory anti-harassment training where I will be lectured on ‘psychological violence’. Presumably what the penis owner is subjected to by the desperate woman crying in the accommodation office because she feels vulnerable and doesn’t want to share with a six footer with a penis who campaigns to abolish sexual preference.
So the crying woman who doesn’t feel safe (who may additionally have been raped in the past) is a bigot and gets thrown out of accommodation, and the penis owner gets a free single room and carte Blanche to crow about how victimized they are.
The whole thing is a fucking mess.
I have old school trans friends who wouldn’t dare to trample sex-based rights put in place to protect the more vulnerable and then crow about it.
You might want to sex-base your feminism. It will iron out a few glitches you seem to have picked up.
Oh, and I really support trans people. My daughter is non-binary. My son’s bf is a transman. I have a few older transsexual friends. I feel gutted that they find life so hard and have always supported their human rights and will stand alongside them to campaign for trans rights.
But I won’t allow a mental illness to be an excuse to erode sex-based provisions granted to women, in recognition that their biology renders them more vulnerable in a myriad of ways.
If you choose to, that’s fine. It ain’t feminism. But it’s your right to make your own decisions.
TIMs don’t want their own protections. They want to erode women’s.
It’s embarrassing that you are 40. You are old enough to have experienced sex-based discrimination. But here you are, supporting it. Tch.

PecanPieFace · 23/01/2018 15:17

This thread will likely be taken over by folk that hate trans people, but good on you for trying.

Um no none of us "hate" trans people.

I don't think you can identify out of the biological sex you were born into. That doesn't mean I hate anyone. Get a grip ffs.

Battleax · 23/01/2018 15:17

I would never support trans-ablism and I don't think it's the same thing at all.

But transablists will want self-ID

Original poster
100lbtolose · 23/01/2018 15:17

Maybe pps are right and I shouldn't engage - also I suppose it was stupid to think people would leave this thread alone but really I thought there could be one pro-trans thread! I'll just reply to people from now on if they are here in support of trans people and maybe that will help guide it back to the original idea Smile (probably not tho, lesson learned Grin)

OP posts:
Battleax · 23/01/2018 15:18

And they'll be very upset by suggestions that it's "not the same thing".

UpstartCrow · 23/01/2018 15:18

Misogyny is still not a hate crime.

Try to explain why.

Xenophile · 23/01/2018 15:19

Nobody is anti-trans, unless you're proposing that being pro-woman is anti-trans, in which enjoy your biscuit.

No one I know hates trans people either. So you can piss right off with that tub of actual arse too.

JaniceBattersby · 23/01/2018 15:19

Hummusscot I’m genuinely sorry you’ve encountered bigotry in your life. I’m absolutely pro-trans. I have no interest in interfering in anyone’s right to indentify as whatever they want to. I would always stand up for a trans person if I saw them being abused because of their chosen gender.

But at the same time, I have grave concerns over the browbeating I’d feminists by some trans activists. I am also worried about what happens to refuges / prisons etc if people are allowed to identify and the current hot potato of the Labour Womens’ shortlists.

I do think trans women who have a GRC should be able to stand on all-women shortlists though.

I can think all of these things at the same time and not be anti-trans, as can many of the people here.