Trans friendly thread!

[100lbtolose]

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are

Why are you grouping those three different things together as though they're the same?

@battleax I don't think they're the same, I said OR!

pls be respectful and don't post here.

You mean you want an echo chamber? The internet is full of them.

You can't tell people where to post.

@100lbtolose There are definetely more people that support trans rights than there are people that don't, mn just seems to be the website where people go to talk about how much they hate us! The media currently crapping on trans people constantly does make you lose hope a wee bit, but I'm remaining optimistic.

I don't understand what transwomen are women means. Could you explain your point of view using science instead of reductive stereotypes or feelings?

@battleax I know I can't tell anyone, that's why I asked. I don't think it's a big ask to ask people to make their own threads instead of using this one. It should be ok for there to be one totally trans friendly thread right?

You should ask MNHQ to add #nodebate to the thread title.

100lbtolose, can you tell me why you think transwomen are women, not transwomen? I really want to understand this, and I can’t get anyone to explain it to me. Thank you.

Oh, and what do you mean by “anti-trans”?

It should be ok for there to be one totally trans friendly thread right?

No, mate. No such guarantee. Mumsnet does not provide "safe spaces", thank God.

I am all for anyone to identify as whatever they wish.

I am not anti trans.

I am however against trans women being allowed to self identify and that day being allowed to enter any womans space, any woman’s sports team, and apply for a “women only” job. etc etc etc.

Everyone is entitled to their opinion and the wonderful thing about MN is that it is (after some struggles last year re Spartacus) one of the only safe places on the internet, and indeed RL, where those of us who have issues with trans rights v women’s rights are able to voice that without death threats/rape threats or being told to die in a fire/of cancer etc

So yay, go you with your positive trans loving thread, but FFS put it somewhere other than feminism.

@hummusscot you are so right. For some reason MN seems to have mostly anti-trans rights views but our and about in the world I never see it! People in real life are much more pro trans and it's so great to see. I also think young people are so much more pro trans. My niece is 14 and her and her friends are all totally pro trans and don't really 'get' why you wouldn't be. So I feel hopeful about the issue in real life!

But you grouped them together as if they belong together. They're three very different things.

One of my strongest personal reasons for objecting to self ID is because I'm disabled and I have a lot to fear from self-ID transablism.

But I object to self ID on the logical basis that it makes no sense whatsoever and would give anybody access to any disadvantaged group (and services and institutions meant specifically for those groups).

So that's a reasonable, non-bigoted position I hold about self ID as a concept.

How does that warrant bracketing me with "anti-trans" people? (Presumably meaning bigots?)

I am trans friendly.
I think that there is a wider issue which is being thoroughly debated on the feminism boards on mumsnet about how the fight for transwomen's rights is/will/may impact on the fight for women's rights and it entirely appropriate that there is a forum/space for that discussion.
It is also entirely appropriate of you to post a thread seeking out those who don't want to debate that issue but, you have put your thread on the feminism board (goady) and stated in the OP that no discussion will be welcomed (goady and rude).
Ask for your thread to be moved to LGBT and open it for discussion. You may be surprised.

Why is this here? Are you representing transwomen or transmen as your title isn't clear?

And fwiw regardless you should have posted in the correct LGBT section as you are clearly being a GF.

@100lbtolose that's really lovely to hear :) Both my partner and I are trans and often the transphobia makes us scared to start a family properly. It reminds me a lot of the really horrendous backlash against gay people when it was really bad a couple of decades ago- a lot of the same rhetoric going on.

Nobody on here hates trans people

Stop being silly or goady or whatever you prefer

Part of the issue is that any hint of questioning, however mild, is positioned as ‘anti-trans’. It’s so reductive and dismissive and problematic.

@battleax I didn't call u a bigot and I said from the start this thread isn't for any name calling or abuse.

I would never support trans-ablism and I don't think it's the same thing at all. I really am not here for a debate because as I said the idea of this thread is just for people to know that some or us on MN are totally pro-trans!

Unwilling to accept debate; invading women's spaces; insulting older women- yep, this is definitely a pro trans thread

" 100lbtolose Tue 23-Jan-18 15:05:45
@battleax I know I can't tell anyone, that's why I asked. I don't think it's a big ask to ask people to make their own threads instead of using this one. It should be ok for there to be one totally trans friendly thread right?"

Do you actually use mumsnet?
It's a chat board and people can comment on anything.
They had to open a separate section for 'Christmas' because posting 'only 50 days until christmas' in a general section resulted in a thread full of 'fuck you and the reindeer you rode in on'

People can comment. You can't start a thread demanding that people cannot challenge you on an issue that you absolutely know is controversial .

So again, it's looking unlikely that you want to achieve a nice friendly thread. Quite the opposite

@Battleax I'm a disabled trans person. I'm really interested in your thoughts around self-ID for disabled people- do you mean self diagnosing?

I'd love to hear your thoughts about what I posted re transablism and self ID.