Trans friendly thread!

[100lbtolose]

Hi MNers!

Just first of all want to say this isn't going to be a goady thread or a place to slag anyone off of be abusive. Everyone can have an opinion and everyone's allowed to think that they like.

2nd, if your anti-trans or don't believe trans people should be alllwed to self ID or that they aren't the gender they say they are etc pls be respectful and don't post here. There are loads of threads about all kinds of discussions about being trans that you can post on and I think it would be fair if you didn't do that here. I Obviously can't prevent anyone but It would be nice for this space to be respected as trans friendly and not taken over for other reasons. If you don't agree just leave and post somewhere else instead of using this thread please!

That now said - I'm all for trans rights and I think trans men are men and transwomen are women. I don't know if many MNers feel the same but if you do say hi! Or if anyone is trans know that you have an ally in me this thread can be for a chat or support or (friendly!) discussion. Or maybe I'm the only one here lol and I can just talk to myself...

100lbtolose

Not buying it. Put it on the LGBT section. They are probably crying out for it.

A few practical questions for you, OP.

In this blissful, post self-ID nirvana of yours, tell me what will happen in the following scenarios.

A woman goes for a smear test. She is confronted with a transwoman HCP. Is the woman allowed to ask for a biologically female nurse, or does she get struck off her GP's register for being transphobic?

An amateur women's rugby team (amateur as in so far down the leagues no-one's going to be checking blood testosterone levels, even if you believe those level the playing field) finds itself confronted with an opposing team with a 16 stone, 6'3" non-binary femme presenting person with stubble in the front row. Do they play, putting their front row at risk of spinal injuries, or do they get their team kicked out the league for transphobia?

A school puts a teenage girl and a lesbian-identifying transgirl in the same room on a school trip. The teen girl gets pregnant (through consensual sex, just down to normal rampantly randy teenage hormones, not coercion). Do the parents have any come-back under safeguarding legislation and the school's duty of care, or does it just become one of these things?

A woman in a locked psychiatric in-patients ward is put in a room with a transwoman. Whose rights come first? (This one's already happened, BTW - the answer seems to be "the transwoman's of course, durr, they /hada penis so they are clearly more important).

Can you tell us what you mean by "pro-trans"?

What does pro trans views mean though? It would seem that leaves no room for discussion on anything. Why don't you just list all the things we are to think and believe to create this safe space, devoid of critical thinking, that you seem to desire?

Similar posts in the lgbt section have got the kind of response you are after.
If that is what you are genuinely after.

But feminism is for females. Clue's in the "fem" prefix.

You have my support. Not all feminists are anti-trans people.

Refusing to engage in actual reasonable dialogue, as if in fear that rationality will corrupt them?

Tick.

Digitally putting their fingers in their ears and singing 'TRANSWOMEN ARE WOMEN, PLEASE DON'T ATTEMPT TO DISCUSS THIS WITH ME BECAUSE I DON'T REALLY UNDERSTAND IT EITHER BUT WANT TO LOOK 'RIGHT ON'.

Tick.

How on earth any of you handmaidens can call yourselves 'progressive' or 'liberal' with that kind of attitude baffles me.

As an aside, Jeremy Corbyn can talk to terrorists as he believes you should discuss your differences. I wonder why Labour don't seem to apply this thinking to gender critical people.

But @100lbtolose what would be the point of a thread where people just post a big thumbs up?

If that's what you really wanted you would have posted anywhere else on the entire internet.

I agree too OP

The transphobia on here is disgusting

You absolutely cannot expect people not to debate on here.

No platforming/silencing is the absolute worst way to get issues dealt with.

Are you going to answer any questions??

You've been asked lots of good ones.

No one here, at all, hates trans people.

We want them to have their own safe spaces.

What we don't want is for them to take the spaces it has taken hundreds of years and thousands of lives to claw for ourselves.

Answer some questions, please.

Especially the one about what makes a woman.
What is "woman"??
Define one for me.

We won't know whether you're deeming us and our views fit for your thread unless you give us your definition of "pro trans".

It should be ok for there to be one totally trans friendly thread right?

Not in feminist discussion, my friend. The correct situating of the campaign for rights for trans people is feminism's biggest bone of contention at the moment.

My feminism is of the type based in material reality about the female sex class.

Some other people think that feminism should be about people who choose a feminine gender expression regardless of birth sex.

You're in feminist chat. There's bound to be a critique of your views. If you want a nice, happy, breezy thread that has nothing but support of trans ideology, I suggest you move the thread to a more appropriate place.

The transphobia on here is disgusting

Which of the posts on this thread are ‘transphobic’?

So can we self ID as pro-trans?

@shoxfordian @glitched thanks so much for your replies. Honestly didn't think people would be surprised that some ppls think trans rights are a feminist issue! And the transphobia does get me down, but it helps a lot to know it isn't everyone (hence the idea of this thread even if it hadn't worked!)

Shoxfordoian can you point out any posts at all that are transphobic??

Can you answer any of the perfectly reasonable questions asked on this thread?

Because I find it very interesting that after loads of thoughtful posts, asking questions in a respectful manner, still we get no answers at all, no engagement, just people running in shouting "bigot" and running out again.

Why is that??

If you really did not want a debate I suspect OP you would have posted this elsewhere.
I know a number of vulnerable women who have been badly impacted by trans inclusion, but precisely because they are vulnerable, are not going to post about it on social media.

I don't see anyone on this thread who hates trans people.

Lots of people who have an issue with how self id will impact women's rights though.

I would be very interested in your view on how self id won't be a problem for women, and also your definition of "woman".

Why are trans rights a feminist issue? I'd really like to be able to understand this.

Also...

There are definetely more people that support trans rights than there are people that don't, mn just seems to be the website where people go to talk about how much they hate us!

As soon as the reality of the situation hits the general public (who right now probably don't give a shiny shit either way) I think you will find that rapidly changes.

In fact, the vast majority of people who have been 'awakened' to the risks posed by the TRA movement 'peak trans' pretty rapidly.

And the transphobia does get me down,

Could you perhaps cut and paste the transphobia?

This is very confusing. I'm starting to think you posted to goad.

IS there any transphobia on the thread?

Mumsnet deletes transphobic comments if they are shown them

shox

You should report if you see it

Or better point it out to and there will be two of us reporting it

I will wait patiently over here

In the 'fully supportive of trans rights but 100lb doesnt care as it doesn't fit with her narrative' corner

I really struggle with people who lie all the time

This is crazy, I'm not anti trans- it's a short life, live it how you feel comfortable. I'll use pronouns she/he whatever whoever prefers and I'll call anyone who is trans by any name they wish. I'll respect them in the way I respect everyone else. I believe there should be no violence or threat towards trans people...just wanted to clear that up.

BUT why do women's rights have to be trampled?

The line 'transwomen are women' - I just don't understand. I'm a woman and to be honest I have no idea what it feels like because I just am. I like football, wear men's sweaters and often don't shave my legs so am I a man, or am I gender neutral? Except I wear makeup and like shopping so does that make me a woman again?

I know the answer, I'm a woman because I'm a female adult human being. It's simple.

OP why are you ignoring us??

Why is silencing and shutting down and ignoring the only debate tools you have??

Why won't you answer straight up questions?

Why won't you acknowledge literally all the posts explaining how questioning ideology is not the same as being "anti" it?

The only other groups of people to use such silencing tactics have been....well....not very nice.

No debate is a knife in the heart of all the women who fought to get us spaces where we could debate.

My suffragette great grandmother would be disgusted at these tactics.