Transgender woman sues over ordeal in male prison

[SimonBridges]

www.theguardian.com/society/2018/jan/20/tara-hudson-transgender-prisoner-sues-government?CMP=twt_gu

While I don't think that men with working penises have a place in a woman's prison, and I have no idea on this persons penis status, I think that putting someone who looks like this in a male prison is just asking for trouble.

I wonder how many other women have been convicted of head butting men.

Men in men's prisons and female in female prisons maybe it will discourage trans people to break the law.

What or who is WEP?

Women’s Equality Party

Thanks!

I note that the Guardian has adopted the space between trans and women.

Of course.

The reality is that there are no trans prisons. So as it stands the most appropriate place for male offenders is a male prison. A female prison is not an alternative to male prison. They are not interchangeable. The solution lies with creating a trans prison space.

If Tara wins the discrimination part of this case it will be much harder for other organisations to deny self iding transwomen access to women-only spaces.
It's a really important case. If Tara loses it will empower organisations to ask to see a GRC before allowing males on to women's wards etc.

You can't act like a violent man and expect to be treated differently because you had breast implants and wear a dress.

What tara experienced was proof of why "she" has no business amongst women.

Best not commit a crime then if you need to stay out of prison for your own safety

Do you even need a specific trans prison. Surely all sorts of men are in prison, some more vulnerable than others, "presenting" in all sorts of different ways. Hudson is a man who has chosen to have body altering surgery, but they are still a man. It is impractical to have different prisons for each section of the diverse male population.

Love how they want to escape male violence in the men’s prison after sent down for classic male violence ! She is still male. Not even bothered to get a GRC.
Somehow I think that, if we do get wings for trans prisoners, the transmen wing will be a heck of a lot smaller.

I don't know if you have seen this or how well it translates to the UK or short stays - but this phenomenon contradicts the idea TIMs have it the worst in prison (remember there are all sorts of reasons to get picked on in prison - having a stammer, being physically small, having a disability, etc,etc)
m.youtube.com/watch?v=rYu9kIsIZ7k
(slightly ponderous interviewing though)

'i find the ministry of justice stance most heartening.'

Same here. I'm surprised and really pleased by it. A bit of sanity on this issue for a change

'Love how they want to escape male violence in the men’s prison after sent down for classic male violence !'

Spot on

Even if you think trans prisoners should be in women's prisons (I know that's nobody here!) - THERE ISN'T ANYWHERE TO PUT THE VIOLENT ONES!

The women's estate in England and Wales has only one prison capable of accommodating Category A prisoners. Scotland and Northern Ireland don't have any and have to accommodate Cat A women in special wings of men's prisons.

I was also heartened to see the terminology there.

"Her lawyer, Jane Ryan of Bhatt Murphy, says the government is denying her gender identity.."

Actually the MOJ is accepting her gender identity: they use Tara's preferred pronoun. But they're not conflating gender with sex. Because they've not forgotten Biology 101.

I really struggle with this. I struggle with why a man, identifying as a woman (and being sure about this), wouldn't have surgery to remove male genitalia. If they did, I don't think I'd have a problem with them going to a female prison (if it were up to me).

Can anyone help me understand?

Is this case it seems that Tara is happy to have ambiguous gender (which is her right), but it makes it very difficult to know how/if she can access services which are segregated on the basis of sex. Is the answer to stop segregating on the basis of sex (obviously this may work better with toilets etc than prisons, safe spaces etc).

I don't want to cause offence, I'm just struggling with this.

Violence / bullying / sexual violence in prisons is unacceptable. People should be incarcerated but not put into a situation where violence is the norm.

It's easy to see that Tara would have a fucking horrible time in a mens prison as to be honest do lots of men who don't conform to gender stereotypes.

I find it disturbing that the fact this person retains their male genitals and that they are functional is glossed over. The article talks about breasts and says taken hormones for years which would imply to most people that they have somehow turned womanly down below / or at least their dick doesn't work.

It is disturbing that the level and repeated nature of the attacks Tara has carried out - on men - is also glossed over. How tall is Tara? The pictures are often taken to show the person looking as feminine as possible. WTF are those breasts about. Anyway. Let's have a pic of Tara next to a standard sized woman or man and see what's what here.

The risk to female prisoners is not mentioned AT ALL.

I believe that

1. It should not be a given that violence and sexual violence are the norm in prison
2. People who are at risk need to be protected. This does NOT mean stuffing men who are likely to be at risk in with the women for fuck's sake. Large numbers of male sex offenders saying they are "trans" at the moment - it doesn't take a genius to work out why

Problem is that women in prison are not a group that many people care about.

Having said that, no-one wants female prisoners getting pregnant while inside, for a variety of reasons. That is the main reason we split them up, really.

Scotland and Northern Ireland don't have any and have to accommodate Cat A women in special wings of men's prisons.

If that's considered an acceptable solution for violent women, surely trans identified male wings in men's prisons would be ok too?

I've heard gay men say they camp it up much more inside prison than out because it affords a weird protection.

I think the reason Tara is doing this is because Tara is a raging narcissist - in the actual self-aggrandising, certified personality disorder type - its the violence, forcing others to concur with his distorted reality, legally taking on massive institutions for "me me me" reasons...

If you can't do the time, don't do the crime.

That goes for every person regardless of gender.

Somehow I think that, if we do get wings for trans prisoners, the transmen wing will be a heck of a lot smaller.

There are no transmen in prison in the UK (unless that's changed very recently).

How tall is Tara? The pictures are often taken to show the person looking as feminine as possible. WTF are those breasts about. Anyway. Let's have a pic of Tara next to a standard sized woman or man and see what's what here.

This is Tara with her Mum - she is also slightly behind her mum so would probably look even taller if they stood side by side.

Tara is an enormous bloke who has clearly spent huge amounts of time posing in front of mirrors to look like a 'sexy lady' and knows how to do the same in front of a camera.