Terrible article from the Independent

[catgirl1976]

Here www.indy100.com/article/trans-lives-matter-shon-faye-juno-dawson-riley-carter-india-willoughby-travis-alabanza-annie-wallace-8099866

What can 'cis' people do to be better allies to transpeople in 2018.

I don't even know where to start with this.

That's the Guardian and the Independent off my list now. Politically homeless and driven to reading The Times.

Here’s a question, Luner. Are you genuinely so dim that you don’t understand that when something is in the public domain that it’s in the public domain? That YouTube isn’t a private corner of the internet for immediate family and friends, but a site accessible to millions? Or are you simply trying to derail the argument?

Comments by India Willoughby who was I think (I skim read it) the only one who expressed any notion that the world does not revolve around them.

India seems about the only one making any sense. This whole cis thing is fucking stupid. India usually makes a lot of sense to be honest. But then again, 'old school transsexuals' usually do. its these new 'transtrenders' that are the problem really.

Here's a question hackmum: if someone took a photo from your public facebook page and used it without your permission to trash you in an online publication, would you shrug your shoulders and say 'meh, it was already in the public domain?'

Or do you consider bodily autonomy and consent to be conditional?

Nice swerve luner

Agree it’s not a naked picture of a child?

It would depend - is the photo taken from my public Facebook page also in my recently published book?

Also did hackmum consent to you using her name in your post? Conditional consent, right?

Or do you consider bodily autonomy and consent to be conditional?

Does that also include real females wanting to retain female spaces that men can not enter and the right to refuse smear tests by males dressing as female nurses? Or does it only count when that person identifies as trans?

lunar

That actually happens to women all the time. In fact search daily mail in Mumsnet and you’ll see how many times they take from these threads and the response is always ‘it’s a public forum suck it up’
I know they printed someone’s photo and they got in touch with the daily mail and they gave them £60 for using it but wouldn’t take it down.

The daily mail are notorious for doing this, they always post pictures of women on holiday in their bikinis that they’ve got off Facebook.
It’s shitty, but it’s not ‘revenge porn’ and it certainly doesn’t only happen to trans people.

If the mail took photos without permission then I do think it is wrong, even if they were in the public domain.

It was not photos of a naked trans child though. Thats sensationalizing it. It was a before and after photo of a mastectomy.

I'm not here to change your mind. I'm voicing an opinion.

But here's a question: presumably, some or most of you don't even accept that Alex Bertie is a man (as he states he is). Presumably some or most of you believe Alex Bertie is really a woman and should accept that.

Which would mean that those of you who do not Alex Bertie as a man, are justifying using naked pictures of someone you believe is really a woman, without consent.

I don't think I am the one doing the swerving, to be honest.

Is it a picture of a naked trans child?

Transmen are men - the daily mail posted a picture of a 20 yr old man without a top. Big deal.

That’s not a question. Ask a question and we’ll answer it.

I don't think transmen are men, any more than a transwoman is a woman.

Before and after photos of a mastectomy though, I am not seeing the issue with that. The only issue is them reproducing the photos in an article without permission.

whenever a person posts something on any public forum, they should do so with the reasonable expectation that their post may be quoted.

This is not even remotely analogous to having a private account hacked and posts stolen from it.

it is ridiculous that anyone should post photographs of themselves online, and in a book, and then be outraged that the photo appears in a newspaper.

Lunar she consented to having her photo made public, when SHE put it on a public page, so no I don't have a problem with photos being published if someone was stupid enough to use them to court the public in the first place.

Bodily autonomy should be treated as a human right for every single person, cis or trans and regardless of gender or sexuality. Bodily autonomy should not be conditional on anything. Ever.

I am simply highlighting that many responses to my points seem to suggest that bodily autonomy is conditional on not being trans. I do hope I'm wrong about that.

If a particular group of women won't accept a trans woman into their space then my response would be to create a space where the cis and trans women in that space are consenting to and comfortable to be there, together.

A topless picture isn't naked.
He is 20.
He has shared the pics himself on YouTube and in his books.

If a youtube celeb woman had posted topless pictures of herself on her channel and in her book, i wouldnt be at all surprised that the DM published them.

Given they spend their whole time publishing papped shots of celeb cellulite/boobs/armpit hair/underwear/lack of underwear I don't think this is surprising.

Can't get worked up about them reprinting photos of someone's chest (male or female ).

lunar you’re moving the goalposts, originally you said it was a picture of a naked child and that it was revenge porn and that they only did it because it he is trans. When we said that none of those things are true you said we are justifying it.
The daily mail is vile, it’s wrong to do that to anyone but they didn’t do it because he’s trans.

And I don’t think females can become Male no, I think he can present himself however he likes and I’ll call him whatever he likes but he’ll always be biologically female. There’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just fact.

luner the many responses are to you describing a topless 20 year old trans man as a naked child. As you know.

So that's a 'no' to autonomy for trans people from you then?

Okay - like I said, I wont try and change your mind.

If a particular group of women won't accept a trans woman into their space then my response would be to create a space where the cis and trans women in that space are consenting to and comfortable to be there, together.

Yeah that’s what we’ve been saying, welcome to terf hood.

So bodily autonomy should be paramount but women shouldn't expect that when having gynacological examinations?

Trans people should get the exact same bodily autonomy as anyone else, what makes you think that we don’t want that?

So that's a 'no' to autonomy for trans people from you then?
I have literally no idea what the DM reprinting publically available photos of a celebrity has to do with bodily autonomy.

I think trans people should have the same rights to bodily autonomy as everyone else. That means publically available photos may be shared.

Are you arguing trans people should have more rights to bodily autonomy than non-trans?

Actually....im getting sucked into a derail.
Back to the point at hand.

I am quite surprised the Indy published this as they haven't seemed to me as fervently behind the trans movement as the Guardian. But the Guardian has softened recently so maybe journalists are taking these stories elsewhere.