Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Flexible and made to last.

Meet the Other Phone.
Flexible and made to last.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Follow on thread to - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

999 replies

Datun · 19/12/2017 10:17

Thread came to an end. But I wanted to reply to Debbie.

Debbie6666

Your transman in the cowboy hat?

It really it really is the height of enough to actually leverage the damage that the trans ideology does to try and get women to capitulate to it.

We are telling you how detrimental this is to women, including transmen, and you’re actually using it as a ner ner moment?

It’s beyond parody. And very deceitful.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
SpartonDregs · 23/12/2017 15:02

@perfectly was a lesbian in an abusive relationship on the last thread.

They think that the links to the straight man who calls themselves a dyke [as linked by quantum earlier] who says that sterilisation of children and keeping their genitals in a pre-pubesecent state was just seeking tweets to validate a position, not one ounce of worry about this.

And then starts to get abusive towards those that do not agree with them.

I don't even think they know what they are.

TunaSushi · 23/12/2017 15:04

Cognitive dissonance.

perfectly · 23/12/2017 15:07

Datun is the OP, we've debated this for almost two weeks and finally reached an agreement and that's the end of it in my mind. Anyone still challenging me is spoiling for a fight and I'm not taking the bait.

Merry Christmas everyone Xmas Smile

PencilsInSpace · 23/12/2017 15:08

For any confused lurkers, the proposed legal changes that everybody-except-perfectly is discussing are clearly outlined here.

These are the legal changes we are discussing because these are the legal changes that have been proposed.

  • changes to the GRA so anyone can get a GRC through a process of self-ID. This is the current proposal. The scottish consultation has already started, the UK-wide consultation was supposed to start in the autumn but appears to have been delayed.
  • changes to the EA to remove all exceptions for single-sex spaces/services/jobs where a person has a GRC. This is a recommendation in Miller's Trans Equality Report. It has not been consulted on and there has been no bill yet, however it may have formed part of Miller's gender identity bill that ran out of time before the text was published.
Xenophile · 23/12/2017 15:18

Thanks Pencils

SophoclesTheFox · 23/12/2017 15:19

I originally read your posts at face value, perfectly - with the assumption that you are who you said you are: a woman, a lesbian and a feminist. But I found that hard to reconcile with what you were posting. It felt off.

If I read them with the assumption that you are actually a trans identifying male, that cognitive dissonance vanishes. Your stance makes complete sense (even the attempts to confuse and derail by chucking insults rather than answering questions makes more sense, because you're hiding something, it's not just random slanging).

I could be wrong. Doubtless you will find some way to make this an insult to you. But hey ho. Passive Aggressive Merry Christmas to you too!

TunaSushi · 23/12/2017 15:22

I got male from Perfectly too.

WTAFisthisshit · 23/12/2017 15:22

Thanks pencils that's a good summary.

Well done TunaSushi on meeting with your MP and getting them to think. Starting to understand why Debbie6666 had such a reaction to my suggestion that all the lurkers (and in fact all woman) should contact/meet with their MP.

People are definitely starting to take notice and think, if they weren't there wouldn't be disingenuous posters crawling all over this board trying to keep all the extremely articulate, well informed and motivated posters busy to stop to prevent them writing to MP's.

Merry Christmas everybody, I look forward to learning more from you all in 2018. Xmas Smile

Thermostatpolice · 23/12/2017 15:25

Tuna thank you for reporting back and for the tips. It's helpful as I've written to my MP but not visited and wouldn't know what to expect. Fantastic result! I'm not surprised that the MP was horrified only by the kids part. But that's horrific enough on its own.

TunaSushi · 23/12/2017 15:25

It was the MPs wife that posted on these threads, encouraging lurkers to meet their MP, that persuaded me to get up and take action.

SpartonDregs · 23/12/2017 15:26

Wondering if debbie6666 and perfectly are sharing the same computer, which is how they can't be on at the same time...men always revert to insults if they cannot get women to see their point.

WTAFisthisshit · 23/12/2017 15:30

Yep! Longweek was who got me off my arse too! Grin

LangCleg · 23/12/2017 15:36

The compromise agreed with Datun and BatShite at 11.16 is the position I am willing to back, as a pro trans feminist, that protects both women and trans women as per the original OP.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA.

This is your best one yet, perfectly!

There was no compromise because, as you very well know, Datun and Batshite were talking about an "honour system" by which women accept use of women's toilets and changing rooms by actual transsexuals as a piece of social etiquette. And you were redefining "honour system" to mean support for legal changes to self-ID - as you explained in several posts.

You've honestly got the best brass neck I've ever seen!

QuentinSummers · 23/12/2017 15:45

So this is what you said at 11.16
GRC process stays as it is. 2 years of living in new name, medical assessment of transgenderism. So not self ID

Honour system for female spaces. As now. Trans women can use them as courtesy, women retain the right to challenge. Single sex exemptions remain in place where necessary.

Blockers only available to trans kids in exceptional circumstances, with additional safeguards in place so there is no influence from trans adults in the process
I would say no blockers personally.

Let kids be kids, don't tell them their clothing sense makes them the opposite sex. agree

If this is genuinely what you mean, I think nearly all of us are fine with it. Why have you spent days arguing about TERFs with placards and self id if that's not what you want? Weird

perfectly · 23/12/2017 15:54

Lang I'm afraid you're wrong. An honour system would allow 'genuine' people to access the facilities they need without subjecting them to a humiliating inspection of their genitals. Datun and I went on to discuss trans teenager Jazz Jennings accessing female facilities and I was not corrected in my assumption she would be allowed in under the honour system.

And to the people who say 'You must be a man' you're just proving my point for me - you just want to argue rather than trying to find a solution. I am not taking the bait.

perfectly · 23/12/2017 15:55

Quentin I keep trying to explain not everyone who is pro trans supports trans activism.

QuentinSummers · 23/12/2017 16:03

I would've thought it's a contradiction to support gender self identification and the current GRC process. They are incompatible.

QuentinSummers · 23/12/2017 16:04

Oh and BTW no-one wants to inspect anyone's genitals. That is ridiculous.

SophoclesTheFox · 23/12/2017 16:07

I'm genuinely almost in awe of your ability to shoehorn in something that people haven't said in almost every one of your posts, perfectly.

without subjecting them to a humiliating inspection of their genitals

This is a cracker. Nobody has said this. Nobody would say this. It's ludicrous.

Asking questions isn't picking a fight. I can see that you're not going to answer them. But that's fine. I think they probably answer themselves.

TunaSushi · 23/12/2017 16:15

The other issue that persuaded my MP, as a parent themselves they didn't like the Scottish model being consulted on, around trans children, being reported to social services etc.

LangCleg · 23/12/2017 16:34

Lang I'm afraid you're wrong. An honour system would allow 'genuine' people to access the facilities they need without subjecting them to a humiliating inspection of their genitals.

I honestly think we're in slapstick territory now! I'll try once again.

Perfectly, m'dear, you have not reached an agreed compromise with anyone. Why? Because the supposed compromise relies on the definition of the term "honour system". You have a different definition of that term to everyone else on the board.

See? No compromise.

Anyway. Merry Christmas to you.

And my best wishes for the New Year, where I hope your resolution will be to spend more time on men's message boards telling them to either expand the bandwidth of the category "man" to include feminine presenting males instead of foisting them off onto women, or to create special services and affirmative action for TIFs/transmen, who are currently suffering from significant under-representation in the category "man". Don't mind which, but do report back on how successful you've been. Good luck!

perfectly · 23/12/2017 16:46

Lang you are still so wrong GrinGrinGrin But I am enjoying you showing yourself up.

The law right now is any MTF transsexual with a GRC can access female families legally. There is no honour system because they are women. Legal women. You could not kick them out if you tried.

An honour system would only be necessary for those who are mid transition and that is why I agree to it. It protects both women and trans women as it looks at each case individually.

Xenophile · 23/12/2017 16:49

Ok Perfectly, you show us a post where anyone other than you or "Debbie" or "Helen" said that anyone wanted to inspect someone's genitals before they were able to access female facilities please.

SpartonDregs · 23/12/2017 16:53

They are obsessed with genitals. Because it is a kink. Then accuse us of wanting them to get their genitals out. They don't get that the last thing we want to see is their genitals.

TunaSushi · 23/12/2017 16:54

Like men on dating sites sending unsolicited dick pics.