Follow on thread to - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

[Datun]

Thread came to an end. But I wanted to reply to Debbie.

Debbie6666

Your transman in the cowboy hat?

It really it really is the height of enough to actually leverage the damage that the trans ideology does to try and get women to capitulate to it.

We are telling you how detrimental this is to women, including transmen, and you’re actually using it as a ner ner moment?

It’s beyond parody. And very deceitful.

I don't think any of this works though.

To challenge someone on their "gender" (sex) is protected under discrimination laws. Women won't be saying "I want to see your certificate"! They'll be doing what they're best at ie quietly making themselves scarce if someone they find a bit iffy is in a women's only area. At the moment "telling someone" is an option which wont' be there any more due to the discrimination point.

Can you just answer the questions @perfectly?

What are the real problems and what rights are transwomen outside of accessing women's spaces?

Erm trans women can't be women. Unless you change the definition of "woman" from one that has been recognised over millennia to a different one entirely. Which depending on how you did it, would mean that millions of women were not women any more so what would you call them?

And, how do you describe the sexes when it comes to things that are relevant due to sex? How do you describe who is at risk of pregnancy? Oh this is the "ovulator" "non prostate haver" stuff isn't it. Honestly the TRAs say feminists are reductive and then they want to call us names relating purely to our biology and that change. So when talking about ovarian cancer we would be "ovary havers" and when talking about pregnancy we might be "menstruators" or "functional womb posessors" and when talking about sexual violence or lack of access to education there isn't a name because part of all this is that we don't talk about those sorts of things any more at all

Interestingly, i saw today a definition of 'woman'. Apparently we are just a concept.

Woman as a concept

How on earth people like this think babies are made is a mystery.

My MP also didn't care about the meaning of the word 'woman' being eroded, it was amusing to the male aid, the MP only woke up when I explained it would cause problems planning services, and I reminded them how unpopular mixed sex wards were. The MP admitted they had been ignorant of the GRA and had thought gender and sex were the same things. I do strongly advise meeting your MP in person. I then emailed afterwards so that there was a paper trail (should there be a local SCR in future).

VericalBlinds trans women are women. They are treated by the law as women and as a feminist I count them as our fellow women.

SpartonDregs see above. Genuine trans women can therefore access female spaces and legally do what any other woman does.

hahahaha

at women as a concept

these men really do see us as 2-D non people don't they

we don't exist in any material way

perfectly first you said this

"So many people on here say 'trans women can never be women' but if you back the current GRC certificate then you accept trans women with the certificate are legally women. "

Which was saying they were legally women (which is true).

And then you said this:

"trans women are women"

Which says they are literally women under all definitions of the word which is not true, unless you redefine the word woman, which would have the result of defining large swathes of cunty-types out of the definition.

How would you personally define the word woman?

I was feeling very disheartened prior to meeting my MP, now knowing that the one MP I have influence over, will vote against the GRA as it stands, who would have voted with it otherwise, changed that.

Genuine trans women can therefore access female spaces and legally do what any other woman does.

@perfectly

So, apart from accessing women's spaces, which thing should they be legally allowed to do, that they cannot currently do?

And

What are the real problems that you spoke about earlier?

VericalBlinds I'm not going through all this again. The compromise on this thread was the current GRC remains which legally recognises trans women as women. Therefore my definition of a woman is anyone born with XX chromosomes + anyone who has a certificate to prove it.

So you don't actually believe that transwomen are literally women, in every meaning of the word.

Your definition there means that you are a TERF and qualify to receive all threats from TAs towards that "group".

So you wouldn't let Travis into the changing rooms.

You wouldn't have let Danielle into the shelter.

Yes?

TERF.

Nope VerticalBlinds TERF is trans exclusionary radical feminist and I am very much inclusionary.

Trans women are women as far as I am concerned and are welcome in female spaces.

VericalBlinds have you read any of the thread?

TERF is trans exclusionary radical feminist and I am very much inclusionary

You just excluded them by saying they were only women if they were men with a certificate.

Dipping in and out

You sound like a TERF to me. Don't you include Travis as a woman when he feels like one? If not then you agree with everyone else on the thread and I'm not sure what the argument is about.

Nope SpartonDregs as the honour system covers trans people without the certificate.

I think the real problem is that there are a fuckload of people who think it is cool to stand up for people with mental health issues or sexual kinks because they don't want to be seen as being dull.

Aaaaaand we're back to the ad hominem. You lot are predictable if nothing else.

perfectly

This:

Therefore my definition of a woman is anyone born with XX chromosomes + anyone who has a certificate to prove it

Would get you branded as a TERF in the USA. Any statement equating "woman" with "XX chromosomes" would get you branded as aTERF over here.

Has anyone posted this article yet? I can't remember. It's written by three doctors about the potential drawbacks to using puberty blockers on children:

www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/growing-pains

That's not an ad hominen.

An ad hominen is where someone specifically attacks a poster for who they are, not what they believe. For example: "you can't trust anything perfectly says, because she's Bolivian".

Not what sparton wrote.

A thread for children detransitioning in the future (dumping tweets and documents, they can use in a future class action), naming MPs and groups that were all for this etc, also to provide resources to persuade MPs to vote against this, may be helpful.

Lolz at me being called Truscum and being fine about it, and @perfectly getting upset at being called dull.