Follow on thread to - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

[Datun]

Thread came to an end. But I wanted to reply to Debbie.

Debbie6666

Your transman in the cowboy hat?

It really it really is the height of enough to actually leverage the damage that the trans ideology does to try and get women to capitulate to it.

We are telling you how detrimental this is to women, including transmen, and you’re actually using it as a ner ner moment?

It’s beyond parody. And very deceitful.

Sophocles all ad hominem:

'You can't trust perfectly because she's a TRA in disguise, not posting in good faith, thinks it makes her look cool to stick up for the trans kids'

SpartonDregs the irony is I am actually the Truscum and you are the TERF but I didn't expect you to get that.

Except sparton didn't aim that at you

Even if that was what sparton said, which it isn't, none of that is an ad hominem. People are debating with you on what you say, not on who you are.

I can't honestly say which of you and Debbie are more disingenuous.

She said
"I think the real problem is that there are a fuckload of people who think it is cool to stand up for people with mental health issues or sexual kinks because they don't want to be seen as being dull."
This is not an attack on any specific individual

I am actually the Truscum

Are you trans, perfectly?

the irony is I am actually the Truscum and you are the TERF but I didn't expect you to get that.

I really could not care less what you call me. You got yourself so mixed up all you can do is insult people.

I feel as if your idea about the GRC/honour system is different to ours perfectly.
I think most of us are saying leave the status quo in place with respect to GRC and access to woman's spaces.
Is that what you mean?

Nobody posting here is a TERF as far as I can see, trans men are not excluded.

Perfectly has posted several opinions and beliefs on these threads that would have her described as a TERF by TRAs, who actually define TERF as someone who shares the same views as Pefectly holds on children and Travis and excludes trans women from certain spaces.

perfect - either you have no idea what 'self ID' means in the context of the current debate or you are playing some weird obfuscatory mind game with the hope of sowing enough confusion that we all give up.

I'm rapidly veering towards the second of these explanations.

SpartonDregs the irony is I am actually the Truscum and you are the TERF but I didn't expect you to get that.

Are you trans?

was feeling very disheartened prior to meeting my MP, now knowing that the one MP I have influence over, will vote against the GRA as it stands, who would have voted with it otherwise, changed that.

Sorry, tuna, I missed this bit. That's brilliant! Congratulations on your influencing skills . It's a great tack to take - it gets very real for people when you start talking about children.

You're not great on the definitions of things, perfectly, so I'm not sure if this is one of those things, but "truscum" refers specifically to a trans person who thinks that a pre-requisite of being trans is a diagnosis of gender dysphoria.

Is this you?

SpartonDregs the irony is I am actually the Truscum and you are the TERF but I didn't expect you to get that.

Unless you're trans, you can't be truscum.

perfectly So you've just quoted something that wasn't actually written as proof? This is after using a tweet that didn't actually exist in the first thread as proof?

That's not a very good habit to get into if you want people to believe you are the one engaging in good faith.

SpartonDregs see above. Genuine trans women can therefore access female spaces and legally do what any other woman does.

NO! This is not always the case. This is what I keep trying to tell you, perfectly.

Legal single sex exemptions exist. This means that, in certain circumstances and to achieve a proportionate aim, TIMs with a GRC can still be excluded by law.

So, for example, a women's refuge can advertise a vacancy for a support worker as women only - excluding TIMs with a GRC - on the basis that the refuge's clients rights to access a single sex support service supersede the rights of the TIM with the GRC to apply for a particular job.

When I say I think single sex exemptions should be a) extended and strengthened and b) promoted as culturally and ethically desirable, this is what I mean.

I think affirmative action programmes (eg Jo Cox scholarship) intended to reduce sex-based inequities should invoke the single sex exemption. I think the prison estate should invoke it for sex offenders. I think the Guides should invoke it on the basis of safeguarding young girls. Etc, etc, etc.

Current legislative pushes will affect these exemptions legally and current activist pushes are already affecting them unofficially. I oppose the legislative changes on this basis and I advocate for increased use of the current exemptions.

If transactivists want to push for dedicated trans services and dedicated trans affirmative action programmes - well, I'm all for it. It would be much better for female people because a) women's spaces, services and programmes wouldn't be squatted by male-bodied cross dressers, and b) TIFs/transmen would actually get a look-in rather than everything trans always being about the TIMs. If you want to advocate for all trans, perfectly, why don't you advocate for this and help the TIFs as well as the TIMs?

the irony is I am actually the Truscum

You're just flailing now, perfectly. The truscum position is to oppose self-ID. Hence the scum in the truscum slur applied by TRAs. You support self-ID as you keep saying. That's the TRA position.

I know you like to be a moving target but you could at least be a bit less obvious about it!

I think what @perfectly did was insult me because they learnt a new word, and then googled it and then pretended it was irony. I just assumed they were ranting about something they didn't understand, again.

You lot are tying yourself up in knots. The compromise agreed with Datun and BatShite at 11.16 is the position I am willing to back, as a pro trans feminist, that protects both women and trans women as per the original OP. According to TRA ideology this makes me 'Truscum' but of course I do not adhere to extreme TRA ideology, not to I adhere to 'TERF' feminism.

This resolution at 11.16 means women and trans women aren't constantly pitted against each other.

If you want to argue the GRC process or what makes a woman a woman or slag off TRA activity then go ahead but I'm sticking with what was agreed. It covers all bases and protects everyone.

You lot are tying yourself up in knots.

More projection than an IMAX. It's amazing.

I didn't sign up to the Christmas Eve Eve resolution, I'm afraid. I have some reservations about it that I'd need to iron out first.

And for one last time:

Perfectly, Are.You.Trans?

Erm

This isn't the UN we aren't in a position to make any biding decisions about the way forward

Further, your "resolution" is unacceptable to mainstream trans activism. Not sure who gave you the right to talk on behalf of all trans people and make "compromises" on their behalf? Although if you are truscum then you must be trans yourself, with a GRC by your own definition, but even so, you can only speak on your own behalf.

You lot are tying yourself up in knots.

I'm not sure that's us.

*binding

According to TRA ideology this makes me 'Truscum' but of course I do not adhere to extreme TRA ideology, not to I adhere to 'TERF' feminism.

No, sorry, you have this completely wrong.

'Truscum' is a pejorative applied to trans people who fail to capitulate to the ideology that trans women have always been women.

Maybe you meant cuntscum, which is the pejorative applied to women?