Follow on thread to - Feeling sad and weary that feminists and trans-women are constantly pitted against one another.

[Datun]

Thread came to an end. But I wanted to reply to Debbie.

Debbie6666

Your transman in the cowboy hat?

It really it really is the height of enough to actually leverage the damage that the trans ideology does to try and get women to capitulate to it.

We are telling you how detrimental this is to women, including transmen, and you’re actually using it as a ner ner moment?

It’s beyond parody. And very deceitful.

Why are these arguments hypothetical? What if you woke up with a male body? What if you couldn't tell the difference between a male and female. What if a lesbian fell in love with a trans identified male?
Presenting these thought exercises when everyone else is addressing material reality are simply derailing the threads.

"Has anyone noticed that transwomen make the news for success in business, sport, the arts and politics, while transmen make the news for having babies?"
The Feminazgûl

Well quite. If we are supposed to acknowledge that transwomen are actually women, then transmen are actually men.

Which is completely meaningless if it does not translate into actually becoming a member of that cohort.

Transmen, no matter how hard they try, are not accepted as men.

And, um coincidently, they are not being listened to, beating men in sport, being feted as ‘the first man’ to do something (except give birth), or jumping up and down demanding entry to men’s prisons. Neither are men the slightest bit concerned over the new definition of the word man.

Because they are women. They know it, we know it and everyone else knows it.

Just like transwomen are men. They know it, we know it, and everyone else knows it.

No one cares if someone’s inner identity tell them something. It only matters if you are treated in that way.

And, strangely, transwomen seem to be even more privileged than men.

Late to the party but rant away guardianfree that was an awesome rant and the world needs to hear it.

Does anyone know the outcome of the investigation into Dr Helen webberley?

Wasn't she just a standard gp who declared herself a gender specialist and made a fortune out of dishing out hormones? How did she get away with this for so long?

It sounds a bit frankensteinish I think. A bit like the horror films about crazy vets who sew a Jack Russell head onto a Doberman.

Gender non conforming children are being bullied in schools by the students and adult teachers for refusing to confess that they are trans.
It is looking more and more as though the goal is to transition away the gay.

The idea of a doctor believing it possible to change sex makes me lol. It reminds me of the film The Fly. Or Hellraiser.

AFAIK there has been no result of the Webberley investigation announced.
There is very little oversight of the medical profession. Even when complaints are filed they are often dismissed as unfounded. That is why they get away with it for so long and the reason prescription drug addiction is impossible to curb.

Gender non conforming children are being bullied in schools by the students and adult teachers for refusing to confess that they are trans.
Really? I can believe that children bully each other about this.
But teachers? I haven't heard of that.

www.express.co.uk/comment/columnists/leo-mckinstry/895046/transgender-madness-2017-year-insanity/

If a woman had written the above, they would probably already have been sacked. When I say woman, i mean female, adult, human.

bewilderness
But the recording of 'trans bullying' will just be added to the schools' normal records of bullying. Incidents of bullying have to be recorded- they're just adding on another category.
I think that's good. Kids who are trans should not be bullied. I'm sure they do get bullied by other kids unfortunately.

I never imagined that I would agree with the Express but that article said everything that is making my head explode in a nutshell.

Teachers appear to be bullying both children and their parents into confessing that the children are trans. Authoritarian asshats in my opinion. The most absurd I have heard about was a little boy who drew himself in his favorite players purple basketball jersey including the number. Teacher decided it was a dress and child was trans and ordered the parents to go to affirmation training on penalty of being reported to social services.

thebewilderness - Presenting these thought exercises when everyone else is addressing material reality are simply derailing the threads.

^^ Yes this.

More than simply derailing it shows a complete disregard for the way women experience sex-based oppression. We don't have the luxury of playing 'what if?' over silly contrived scenarios. This is our actual material lives that we have to live in the actual world.

It reminds me of the blokes who join threads here filled with posts from women describing their real life experience of male violence and the bloke decides now is the time to say 'just to play devil's advocate ...'

I never imagined that I would agree with the Express but that article said everything that is making my head explode in a nutshell

I know...my sentiments exactly.

Perhaps someone can refresh my memory as to where I have read it. Recently, on here. But guidelines telling schools if they don’t have enough complaints of transphobia, they are probably transphobic?

So lots of complaints about transphobia means you are transphobic, not enough also means you’re transphobic.

I think it was the NAHT guidance Datun.

Datun new guidelines from NAHT for schools, there was a thread on it. I hope any school that actually implements them without applying critical thought is one day subject to SCR.

I also agree that was a brilliant and much needed rant, guardianfree.

And that Express article - who would've ever thought we'd see an Express journalist caring about misogyny! 😂😂

Maybe this is the silver lining - men who would have formerly not really given a fuck about women's rights (apologies to the journalist if he has always been a staunch feminist ally of course) are now suddenly waking up and seeing how abysmally low our status is, seeing how women they care about are still second class citizens at best, and finally they want to do something about it. Who knew!

It's tracking back a bit, but I really can't let this lie.

debbie, I have been on the drugs that you so blithely recommend for children. I was prescribed them for severe endometriosis, and I took them because I was desperate to feel better. I did not feel better. I felt much, much worse. Hot flushes. Mood swings. Soaking the bed with sweat every night. Prolonged sobbing fits. Panic attacks. Exhaustion. Weight gain. Joint pain.

And it's your considered opinion that I felt that way because the drugs clashed with my lady brain and made me feel a bit like a dysphoric child??

How dare you?

How bloody dare you?

You don't have the first idea what you're talking about. If they're so harmless, these drugs, then how about you get them injected in your arse every month like I had to, and then you come back here and tell me how easy peasy lemon squeezy it all is.

Fuck's sake. I've read some ignorant bilge on here in my time, but that really makes me see red. I would never give these drugs to a child. Never.

Perhaps someone can refresh my memory as to where I have read it. Recently, on here. But guidelines telling schools if they don’t have enough complaints of transphobia, they are probably transphobic?
I wonder if this is as bad as it sounds.
It might relate to bullying.
Schools have to record bullying incidents. Records of what type of bullying it is (so it could be homophobic or bullying of a trans child, racist bullying or something else ) and how it was dealt with.

Sometimes a school might say 'we don't have any bullying here' because they haven't got any incidents recorded. Obviously that isn't true. Bullying happens at all schools. If the school isn't recording it, then an assumption might be that they don't deal with bullying properly.
It might relate to bullying of trans students. Where there are students who are trans I'm sure that they will get bullied. I haven't heard this, but I'm primary, not secondary.
It's probably a comment taken out of context.

Yup Datun - it's the NAHT guidelines - the ones that have NO definition of transphobia (thus allowing anyone raising any concerns to be accused of transphobia). The guidelines also state:
"• If any member of school staff does not wish to use the ‘ladies’ or ‘gents’ toilets or facilities with a trans person then it is they, not the trans person, who should be asked to use alternative facilities".

In other words, the rights of any self ID individual outweighs the rights of any individual whose religion, personal circumstances, history, medical issues, etc. to choose sex segregated toilets. showers or changing rooms. So the 22 year old female PE teacher MUST share the showers / changing room with her recently transitioned 50 year old trans woman counterpart - or face the consequences.

Nuffaluff To be fair, the comments on the NAHT guidance re bullying state:
"Low levels of complaints may suggest individuals have little faith that their complaints will be taken seriously or addressed satisfactorily. An increase in complaints can suggest workers trust the complaints process and trust that the school’s leadership team will take steps to improve conditions"
And that's absolutely fair comment and applies generally to all types of bullying in schools and other institutions.

Teachers appear to be bullying both children and their parents into confessing that the children are trans. Authoritarian asshats in my opinion. The most absurd I have heard about was a little boy who drew himself in his favorite players purple basketball jersey including the number. Teacher decided it was a dress and child was trans and ordered the parents to go to affirmation training on penalty of being reported to social services.
Really? I've not heard that before.
The express article isn't about teachers bullying children and their parents at all.
If this happened the parent would make a complaint and the teacher would be in serious trouble.

Yes guardian. That's the thinking behind it.
It's not something I 100% agree with but I can see where they're coming from.
Some schools might be very good at promoting kindness, so they might have fewer incidents of bullying.

I don't know why I am still shocked by some peoples views on 'trans kids'..but I am. I find it absolutely astounding that anyone could look at the near 100% persistance rate when kids are put on blockers, look at the 80-95% desistance rate if they are not..and think everything is fine!? Nothing to see here, ove along.

Most of the kids who desist are simply gay adults too. So the push for blockers absolutely is gay conversion therapy. And some people see no issue with this, really?