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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

Liliy Madigan

548 replies

dinosaursandtea · 05/12/2017 12:59

She's taking a Twitter break for her mental health because of the level of abuse she's receiving. She's a teenage girl, FFS - and even if you think she's a teenage boy, in what world does a 19 year old deserve this amount of bullying?

I hope you're all fucking happy now.

OP posts:
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16
SmellySphinx · 08/12/2017 18:04

I was just looking for the opinions of trans people who weren't on board the Lily boat! So I searched on Twitter and Hopes feed came up, been reading all afternoon haha very likeable

MiMi78 · 08/12/2017 18:07

Hope is amazing. Straight talking and funny.
Hope is right in that Lily would get shredded in politics.
If it's anything like 'The Thick of it', I can't see any permanently offended snowflakes lasting long.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 08/12/2017 18:27

We're getting into very deep waters now. genderidentitywatch.com/2017/12/07/sarah-anthony-fadich-usa/ Man attempts to sue his ex-wife and mother of his children for continuing to refer to her ex as 'he', 'him' in front of the children. Apparently it's making them confused. Not his fault in any way, of course. Hmm

SparklyUnicornTractors · 08/12/2017 18:41

Free speech goes head to head with identity rights. This is going to be a bit of a landmark case. Sad

PricklyBall · 08/12/2017 18:58

Well, my prediction is free speech will win. It will go all the way up to the Supreme Court, but the Americans really, really take free speech incredibly seriously.

MrGHardy · 08/12/2017 19:09

the Americans really, really take free speech incredibly seriously.

Do they? That other post that popped up about university (I am assuming it's a UK one) is just a mirror copy of what's been going on at US campuses for some time now. Free speech is being suppressed.

catgirl1976 · 09/12/2017 01:32

I've been trying and failing to explain all of this to DH

His view is, well you women should just fight back. I've given up trying to explain doxxing and no platforming so I have, with his consent, set him up a twitter account and got him to pose the simple statement 'I believe trans people should have human rights but not womens rights' on twitter, tagging owen jones and lily. He asserts no one would object to such a straightforward and inclusive statement

I'll let you know when he reaches peak trans.

RedToothBrush · 09/12/2017 07:59

Cat is the account 'male' or 'female'?

I'd be interested to compare two such accounts making the exact same point because I honestly think that the two would get different types of responses. Women are conditioned by society not to challenge and confront and if they do they are often perceived poorly.

If you want your DH to see why this matters and why it's such a particular problem to women then witnessing the very different responses is part of it.

I do think that it comes as a shock to men how they automatically have a level of respect that women have to work to earn. I've been trying to show DH this for years and he now gets it better. I think actually seeing it demonstrated and directed at 'them' is an eye opener even if they think they get it already.

LangCleg · 09/12/2017 09:25

My husband posts loads of "terfy" things on Twitter. He's even posted asking why nobody ever tells him to "die in a fire" like they do women because of it... and got crickets in return.

MillicentFawcett · 09/12/2017 09:30

What is crickets?

TeachesOfPeaches · 09/12/2017 09:31

Silence

catgirl1976 · 09/12/2017 09:32

Ah dammit Red - I wasn't thinking this through (wine Grin) and its' a male account. Sounds like he will get the same response as Lang's DH

Still - it will make for an interesting experiment when I get him to repeat as a female account and compare

To be fair to him he did get the issues last night but he couldn't get why it would be an issue as he just thinks it's such nonsense it will never make the mainstream and I'm trying to show him how insidious this is and how by the time it does it will be too late.

He was very much of the 'well ignore it' 'well don't accept it' 'speak up' point of view and I was having a hard time getting to accept just how easily women could be shut down. That's what I want him to see.

MillicentFawcett · 09/12/2017 09:47

Thank you @TeachesOfPeaches! I feel old :D

LangCleg · 09/12/2017 10:29

Sorry - crickets = silence, yes!

A while ago, I saw a woman post on Twitter that she had done an experiment with her husband on the dating section of a website. She'd got him to set up a female-looking account and within a few hours, he'd had several unwanted dick pics and a load of threats of sexual violence in response to polite date refusals.

The husband couldn't believe it and the wife was just laughing at his shock.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 09/12/2017 10:46

Re the Twitter dating site story ... I've been a feminist ever since I can actually remember, even though I knew the term as 'women's libber' originally. My mid-life crisis is partly about sheer, unadulterated anger that, on balance, things have not improved since the 70s. Reading posts about identification as male or female or whatever often has me thinking that for as long as I can remember I don't recall having full personhood - part of being sexed as female and gendered as feminine is to be a thing, or as de Beauvior put it 'object to men's subject'. I honestly thought it would get better.

catgirl1976 · 09/12/2017 11:16

I think men really have to see it for themselves before they get it. And yes I don't think things have got much better

hipsterfun · 09/12/2017 11:50

I think I might be a bit younger than you, YetAnotherSpartacus, but feel the same way; in fact, I have the feeling things are getting worse and the 70s/80s is starting to look like a golden era. (That said, as a child I existed in what we would now call a metropolitan liberal bubble which may explain my sense of disappointment at the rate of progress.)

Back on topic, it’s an absurd state of affairs that, ostensibly in the name progressivism, so much energy is being expended as all and sundry get dragged into Liability Lils’ teenage acting out.

WTAFisthisshit · 09/12/2017 11:55

Just in case dinosaursandtea is still worried about the state of Lily's mental health, I'd like to reassure them.

Liliy Madigan
Fekko · 09/12/2017 12:20

two weeks?
Maybe he will get his head sorted and actually do some work to make lives better for women. Maybe he will step in and denounce the frothing and death threats launched at anyone who disagrees the 'she is fabulous!' And makes any comments that someone disagrees with. Maybe he will grow up and be a force for good.

But given lack of life experience, maturity and seemingly common sense I'm not holding my breath. If he really wants to stand up for women he needs to ditch the cheerleaders and think - carefully and seriously - for himself and about other people (even those who he disagrees with).

SparklyUnicornTractors · 09/12/2017 13:21

Maybe he will get his head sorted and actually do some work to make lives better for women.

I'm sure he will believe he's doing that. However he will be using his own personal definition of 'women', his own personal definition of 'women's issues' and you can bet your bottom dollar it won't involve any issue that affects anyone with xx chromosomes. He's openly stated that his desire is to separate womanhood from biology. Men have to do this, because unless they forcibly separate all things woman from anything biological they can't appropriate it. The biology can't be taken and owned, therefore it must be separated from the whole concept of 'woman'.

And Lily is happily replying to rape victims and any other woman asking her about biological women's issues to say they're terfs and bigots so beneath his notice and nothing to do with his post.

Which is all just fiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiine if you're completely out of your bloody tree.

Seriously, the only way to get women's biological politics taken seriously is to create a new term and group specific to xx biology that cannot be appropriated. Except then you will see all kinds of twisting and mindfucking of biology to demonstrate that xy chromosomes are actually xx if the owner of them feels that way inside and that group will be immediately commandeered and run to actively silence and disadvantage biological women too, because God forbid a biological woman have anything to call her own.

I have gone from trying to be polite about this woman-hating stupid child being egged on by a lot of over paid, over privileged, lazy misogynists and brainwashed young girls to being utterly livid.

MrGHardy · 09/12/2017 13:35

Just in case dinosaursandtea is still worried about the state of Lily's mental health, I'd like to reassure them.

That just takes the piss. First "oh no I can't take it please stop" then "I am quite happy" while showing off the followers gained. How can people be fooled so obviously?

Ereshkigal · 09/12/2017 14:07

Collective mania.

OlennasWimple · 09/12/2017 14:53

Red ha nailed it regarding LM's use a of "x" at the end of every tweet. The Merman spoof Twitter account mentioned before does similar, with a little heart at the end of tweets such as "We want all the attention and none of the accountability!"

It's a brilliantly subtle but effective manipulation

ArcheryAnnie · 19/12/2017 09:38

Lily has now been posting on twitter that mums aren't representative of society.

Good grief.

WTAFisthisshit · 19/12/2017 09:45

Saw that @msjenniferjames is really calling Labour out on that one! She and Liz McInnes are going some way towards my restoring my faith in Labour. I will still be voting Tory until Jeremy Corbyn makes an official statement denouncing this farce and confirming exactly what Labour are doing to protect the rights of woman and girls.

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