Liliy Madigan

[dinosaursandtea]

She's taking a Twitter break for her mental health because of the level of abuse she's receiving. She's a teenage girl, FFS - and even if you think she's a teenage boy, in what world does a 19 year old deserve this amount of bullying?

I hope you're all fucking happy now.

Hmm, the site linked to by the Lisa Marchiano tweet is one I would approach with... caution, to say the least.

Also, can we please stop saying that LM took the job of someone LM bullied out of post? It's not accurate. The women's officer LM and pals campaigned against worked for a different CLP. This doesn't make the behaviour acceptable, but cocking up the facts makes LM's critics look like spiteful fibbers...

Yes, getting basic stuff like that wrong is an invitation to TRAs to focus on that one small point and by extension dismiss anything else being said. Ideologues love the gift of being able to shout FAKE NEWS!

I'm going to ask a question, since it's just come into my head:

Could a woman who felt her rights were being violated or was a trans widow like those on another thread expressing the fact that they feel emotionally abused go to a trans woman if they were their local representative, with any degree of confidence or feeling that their concerns were being taken seriously?

Especially if they were vocally and strongly anti TERF to the point of shutting down debate?

The potential conflict of interest is problematic and should be thought of.

@reanimated, I've not said that she took the role of the person she bullied out. I said that a women's officer disagreed that transwomen are women, that Lily in cohort with others hounded her out, and then applied to be a women's officer herself. To add insult to injury no doubt. I'm aware that the two posts are in different constituencies. You're right that it's been widely misreported tho

The potential conflict of interest is problematic and should be thought of.

It is problematic. The party line currently, led by Theresa May, is that women are being silly about their rights and need to shut up about that, they're imagining it all. And I'm pretty sure a trans widow would be told how very much that particular politician supported people to be their true authentic selves so they don't want to hear any whining from the victims of it

So far these points of view are being erased. Only trans truths matter, everyone else's truths are subordinate and disciplinable for any transgressions against feelings or ideology. Even if said ideology (looking at you Scotland NHS advice to schools) is completely incoherent and self contradictory.

I have a brain wave though. One of the male cabinet needs to identify as trans tomorrow morning, demand to be PM and then contact the Hague and sort out Brexit. Since refusing to give them anything they want no matter who it belongs to or disadvantages, or arguing, or denying their version of events will be an act of transphobia and extreme violence, it should all be done and dusted by teatime.

cuiderussie = "I wish people would stop calling him she. He hasn't even got a GRC and all he's done is shit on women".

This ^

So this ^

I have mostly been raging all day about the disablism.

Disabled toilets must be renamed unisex toilets if trans students will be using them, to avoid the stigma of disability. I mean what the actual fuck?

And the advice that disabled children must be separated from their peers and indoctrinated with gender stereotypes....

Yeah I keep starting a letter on that one, but the paper keeps bursting into flames. Where the hell do you start?

• uhm, but most of our parents are gender non conforming at preschool - I mean we have three mums who are accountants, a fireman, two police officers and four dads who are house husbands and main carers, not to mention the one who is a ballet teacher.... what do I do when they go beserk and withdraw their kids for me teaching them that mummy and daddy are trans people in denial and that I'm indoctrinating them with stupid subjective stereotypes that our generation has spent 30 years fighting our way out of?

• What in the playgroup is 'boy specific' and 'girl specific'? I mean our staff, stupidly, work on the whole environment NOT reinforcing limiting ideas about gender. So are girls allowed on bikes? How about books, are boys allowed books? What about drawing? Or do we just police WHAT they draw? Are girls allowed dinosaurs? Superhero costumes? Can we still keep the books showing girls doing empowering things like being firemen/policemen/judges/soldiers, or is this restricted now to transgirls? Because it's a bit of a confusing and totally incoherent message really?

• When we rip the Frozen sparkly dress out of the hands of three year old Sam how exactly should we explain to him as he sobs that no, Frozen dresses are ONLY FOR GIRLS and he can't have them any more? At least until after Easter when we DIVERSIFY and explain that he CAN have the sparkly dress but only if he changes his name to Samantha and gives up playing with toy cars, his other favourite thing?

Is that a mum who is a fireman?

Misprint due to being knackered and livid. Fire fighter.

Just wondering! My niece doesn't get fussed when she's called 'fireman fekka'.

It's all getting a bit silly now isn't it. When I was a kid it was more 'just get on with it' (the right on 70s). Now everything needs a label and professional intervention.

I haven't read through the 17 pages, but I have been following this every day on Twitter and Facebook.

First I agree that we are speaking about a young person here. This does seem to be a young person who has been able to push their agenda through quite successfully both at school and now politically. By their own admission, applying for things and getting them feels good.

I have personally not seen a huge stream of bullying. I have seen a few things which sail close to the wind, but nothing compared to the stuff thrown at gender critical women from the likes of Owen Jones, Ed Milliband and so on. I have certainly not seen any threats of physical harm which is a daily occurance for anyone on who doesn't agree with the TA agenda.

2 days ago I watched a Facebook thread involving Madigan. I have screenshots of it all, but I will not be sharing those for now. This was following Madigan claiming to be too distressed to stay in Twitter.
What I saw was a disgusting attack on first one woman who said Sen need to talk about this. The "gang" then quickly rounded on any voices that asked questions and allegations of TERF was thrown by Madigan against 2 different women. People were threatened, intimidated, laughed at and I am so proud that I stand with these women who took it and didn't just run away. Madigans behaviour was in no doubt influenced by the feeling of power and support and their behaviour towards the few dissenting voiced was pure misogyny, ignoring requests to stop certain behaviours and in general acting like a bully. The very next day Madigan out out the "woe is me, I am just a girl statement".

I am not interested in attacking Madigan, I think there are people behind them who are orchestrating this and that Madigan is but a useful tool. I do not however, believe for one moment that Madigan isnt also happy to go along with this and happy to portray a "young, frightened girl" or "a powerful, inspirational woman" to get what is aimed for.

To be fair, the Ribble Valley has always been known for its policy of tolerance towards women...
www.pendlewitches.co.uk/

I agree Madigan is culpable. Just like my 19 year old boyfriend was culpable when he threw me against a wall. He's an adult. He's responsible for his actions. He's not 12.

Would Lily have photo id as Lily?

Just wondering if ze has legally changed zis name and wondering what zis driving license says.

Are people in public office allowed to officially go by aliases?

No, go ahead, Babycham. Why do you support it? Presumably you see the benefits to the self-identified person as outweighing the disadvantages to them and to others that are being discussed?

Well, seeing as you did post, why don't you also say what you think?

Using ze and zis feels like we're all trapped in an episode of 'Allo 'Allo.

There needs to be more open discussion of it on both sides, and I don't think labeling people as 'he' when they identify as a woman is really helpful. If we can all respect each other, we might be able to have a civil and constructive discussion about where to go from here.

*isn't really helpful, that should have said.

Lancelottie -

Not a desperately liberal or progressive place when I was growing up. Mind you, one of the more straight talking rad fems on twitter (renclithero) is from there as well as that appalling handmaiden who posted the clip.

That “teenage girl “ grew up doused in white male privilege and is twenty in a matter of months .

I was in the vanguard of my profession as female , at not much older . Was I protected from myself ? No.
Behaviour like that , with suicide threats and emotional lability , would’ve had me kicked out .

This kid may be fragile , I have no idea how much is performance or genuine ...but either way , they are - as Naval training officers and psychs would say - “psychologically unsuitable “ .

And it’s nit bullying to note that , as someone’s has to call a halt before shit really goes down .

Now , I agree with laying off the little twerp ,for two reasons .
Either this kid is being set up as a martyr , in which case I prefers to keep my hand so clean , and there’s bigger principles at stake here .

Either way , focussing on him/her may backfire spectacular, as we all know how the - very real and fair - concerns of woman are often spun .

BabychamSocialist but before all this started we were all being terribly respectful, preferred pronouns and all the rest of it. When I look at my own past mumsnet posts from just a couple of years back, I can't believe how much I tiptoed around this whole thing.

Didn't help at all. The more we conceded, the more was seized from us. I do (and always have) used preferred pronouns, etc, with trans-identified people who aren't assholes. But I won't, for example, refer to rapists as "she". I won't agree that men who are abusive to women are female. I won't let a 19-year-old man take the piss, bully and hound women, steal their resources, and still call him "she", either.

Yes, no "shes" for men, even out of respect, whatever. It's not a crime to be male.