Trans Widows escape committee

[TinselAngel]

This is a second attempt to start a thread for women who have been, or are still in unhappy relationships with Trans partners.

Having got out of a marriage to a man who transitioned shortly after we split, it would be good to be able to support others in a similar situation.

I know there's a few of you out there?

@EmilyHowardsWife binge and purge, binge and purge. It'll be back, it'll be worse. I have been there and it is so deliciously tempting to think that it might not, that you can manage this, that being a housekeeper is ok because some women have it worse/the kids etc.

Please, please use this time to get your escape tunnel dug. I didn't use my time well, I honestly don't think I was capable of doing so, I was too unwell. It took him leaving for me to really escape the day to day grim and to accept the reality of all this (although I still can't quite believe it) and it is only now that I am out that I can see that I can be properly happy again.

Please.

@EmilyHowardsWife "My current situation is that I am the gatekeeper of my partner's Trans identity."

So he has made you the gatekeeper and you've accepted it?

Can you use this position to your advantage?

Are you living where you want to live, close enough to family, friends, your own country, whatever?

Can you ask him to move with you to a place that is better for you, or to move out while you adjust etc?

"In his last crossdressing binge it got very bad both physically (sexual) and emotionally. He did get lost in the fantasy of being a highly sexual young girl." Does this mean he was in danger, or you were, or both of you were?

Are you documenting all this? Is he a safe person to parent your children when you are not around? Because if it comes to it and you need to prove that he is not a safe parent to have custody of the kids, can you prove it?

"I got to the stage where I started to make plans to separate and began to separate emotionally from him." Did it feel good to be emotionally separated from him?

@EmilyHowardsWife

"As soon as I became more cold and think of myself as an individual he pulled the rug underneath me and declared he wasn't Trans at all. He denied his homo erotic fantasies which I've heard in lurid detail and has banned any talk about Trans related stuff. In fact outright denies any such thoughts about not being a natal male."

So you have a choice, you can believe he has completely changed and this is now true for how he is or you can believe that this is part of cycle and it may well begin again. Either way, do you want to put yourself through this? Or rather do you want to allow him to put you through this again?

If he is a workaholic what is happening to all the money he is earning, is it all being put in your shared account where you can access it too?

Are you working or would you like to?

I would use this time to make myself as self succificent as possible. Can his extra earnings pay for safe, good childcare so you can build your career? Or do you already have a career?

"a sterile life with no sex, no emotional support, no real love or life."

This does not need to be your future. I don't know how old you are but you may well be able to find love, sex and support in the future no matter how old you are.

"I've been dropped and am now living in a house where I'm just a housekeeper."

You are a housekeeper, a gatekeeper, you are describing yourself like some sort of attendant at someone else's life. You know that this is your one shot at life. If you are not happy, seek help, make plans, I am sure the brave women here can advise you privately by private message.

I really hope I have not offended you but I am just so angry on your behalf and I want you to have the life you deserve.

Plan to leave. If you decide not to or things improve, you have lost nothing. Start to divert cash (cashback on shopping, writing the odd small cheque to a secret simple passbook-only account...). If you decide you want to stay you can re-divert it bit by bit or have a sudden pay bonus. But it starts to give you a future. Think where you would go. Quite right about identifying support. I'm sure I'm not alone in finding your situation terrible to imagine. And sadly I see no reason why this will properly improve. He has a fetish/addiction/something. You have a whole life of possibility without him. We are all here for you. What do you want? Why would you stay? Easy for others (like me) to scream 'get out now!'... sorry if I too sound dogmatic. But planning may help you take back some control. It certainly helped me to be ahead of the game. I worked out I wanted my ex to leave a while before I told him.

"I wonder if non Trans widows can see the underlying psychology and emotional abuse. It seems so clear to me"

I can see it and im not in this situation.

Why dont they make a programme from the trans widows point of view. Has no television company got the balls to?

This thread came into my head earlier today when I was in my local M&S food hall. Standing by the tills was a tall well-built man, probably 50s, with, I presumed, his wife. Greying hair, short back and sides and a smart blue shirt.

It was the navy mid-length skirt that caught my eye, however, teamed with opaque tights and navy Maryjane shoes ...and I was unsure how to react, as I'm sure were all the other shoppers.

He was clearly making a statement, otherwise he'd have been dressed like virtually all the other woman in there in trousers, but presumably he had worn the skirt for a reason, and I can only assume that he wanted to be noticed. So I did what everyone else was doing, and looked out of the corner of my eye.

It doesn't bother me in the slightest if he wants to wear a skirt, but, having read this thread, my instinctive concern was for his wife. My heart went out to her, in case she was going through what you've all spoken about so eloquently on here.

I return to this thread and have started writing responses so many times but the words never seem sufficient.

Sending love to all those who are still going through the pain and I hope you may find strength you never knew you had to get through this time in the best way for you

Why dont they make a programme from the trans widows point of view. Has no television company got the balls to?

I think the BBC did a programme a few months back on trans people and their relationships. Only saw the trailer for it so don't know if it got into trans widows territory or not.

Honestly what would be the point if they did?

I am particularly jaded today, but believe me the men and the women who buy into this are not going to change their mind about what they imagine transgenderism to be, just because we rock up with our evidence.

It is madness.

If I say "my husband is an abusive, sexually motivated cross dresser who gets off on having folk bend their reality to meet his demands." Then I am bitter, unreliable, bigoted, a bit thick for not understanding him as they do etc.

Whereas, when he says "I am literally a woman" then this is definitely true. He says "I'm a super brilliant liar who fooled you all for 20 years, but believe me now" and folk do. They believe him over me.

I have given up wasting my life trying to get folk to see the emperor is naked, not only that but he is aroused by doing so.

Quite @birdbandit

I remember once going shopping for leather trousers with my exH (because he wanted to take steps to explore the hedonistic world that he thought he was missing out on) and he picked up ladies pairs and tried them on. That created a lot of wank fodder for him and he was still using the men's changing room at that point!

I'd love to know if there were more stats on what percentage of MtF trans who retain their penis were AGP. And for those stats, and the fact that AGP is a sexual fetish, to be dropped into all interviews about the fears that women have about Self ID and who uses which changing rooms.

I think the "stats" would be:
"stop talking about this, smoke/mirrors, these abusive men do not exist, you made them up because you are evil terfs out to get the beautiful trans people."

There would be a flounce, and probably a suicide threat to bully the abused wives, to make them stop reporting what has happened.

I'm not sure that experience, facts or meaningful stats are very fashionable right now. Or at least not as relevant as how abusive men feel about what they do.

It is one of the hardest things at the moment, the absolute crushing of alternative experiences and views. I can't help feeling there is domething dominant-male about the bullying (ie of germaine greer by bergdorf and jenner on the dreadful recent debate). I hold on to hope that the world will at some point tire of the narcissism and move on.

I can only hope the tide wil change, and more will be able to leave and talk about their experiences honestly. Some people may have signed up to a relationship with a trans person, but most signed up for a heterosexual, gender conforming partner.

Re the changing room thing; my ex actually talked to me about his sexual fantasies around going to clothes shops to shop for lingerie (for himself), with me and there was a whole scenario around the sales assistant and what she might be thinking etc. Changing rooms were involved in that. Absolutely I know AGP is an issue but it's not what people think of when they hear trans. He wasn't trans; doesn't identify as trans but I can see the attraction in doing so for those whose fetish overrides their sense of decency and the importance of establishing consent.

Thinking of all you brave women.

Here's a copy of my post on another thread, FYI:

*I'm happy for anyone to be pointed in the direction of the Trans Widows thread. We've so far not been targeted or criticised, if that is a possibility I'm fine with it being smoked out.

I have asked @MNHQ for clarification that the thread be allowed to stand, and to continue in the same vein, but I've no serious worry that it will be pulled. Mumsnet has a proud history of enabling women in difficult relationships to support each other and I can't see that changing.*

Just wanted to post to say I am thinking of you all and hope that MNHQ will continue to support the TW threads. It's so important that your voices and experiences are heard

Copied from other thread again..

Confirmation from MNHQ that the transwindows thread is safe:

We've no plans to delete these threads - we're not deleting anything which didn't break the previous guidelines, but we do expect posters, as individuals, to stick to the guidelines as they now stand. We really understand that these threads have been an enormous and much needed source of support for many MNers - and of course we look at everything reported in context, and on a case by case basis

So we'll see how things go. The hill I am prepared to die on is my right to refer to the father of my child as "he".

Still here,

We are all talking about our individual relationships, I'm not making a wider statement about any community of people.

The idea that any one group of people, be it Women or other, is a homogenous blob of singular thoughts and deeds, is very much what the good women who have supported us, are fighting against.

STBXH still prefers that I and our children use male pronouns, so it would be astonishingly arrogant for someone who doesn't know either of us to be offended, he isn't.

Anyone can read the description made by the DSM V:

Gender Dysphoria (p456)

" Adolescents and adults with late-onset gen­der dysphoria frequently engage in transvestic behavior with sexual excitement . The
majority of these individuals are gynephilic or sexually attracted to other posttransition
natal males with late-onset gender dysphoria. A substantial percentage of adult maleswith late-onset gender dysphoria cohabit with or are married to natal females. After gen­der transition, many self-identify as lesbian ."

"Natal femaleswith the late-onset form do not have co-occurring transvestic behavior with sexual excitement."

P702-704 ‘Transvestic Disorder

Transvestic disorder occurs in heterosexual (or bisexual) adolescent and adult males (rarely in females) for whom cross-dressing behavior generates sexual excitement and causes distress and/or impairment without drawing their primary gender into question. It is occasionally accompanied by gender dysphoria. An individual with transvestic disorder who also has clinically significant gender dysphoria can be given both diagnoses. In many cases of late-onset gender dysphoria in gynephilic natal males, transvestic behavior with sexual excitement is a precursor .’

‘Associated Features Supporting Diagnosis Transvestic disorder in men is often accompanied by autogynephilia (i.e., a male’s paraphilic tendency to be sexually aroused by the thought or image of himself as a woman). Autogynephilic fantasies and behaviors may focus on the idea of exhibiting female physiological functions (e.g., lactation, menstruation), engaging in stereotypically feminine behavior (e.g., knitting), or possessing female anatomy (e.g., breasts).’

‘Specifiers

The presence of fetishism decreases the likelihood of gender dysphoria in men with transvestic disorder. The presence of autogynephilia increases the likelihood of gender dysphoria in men with transvestic disorder .’

I have no interest in determining a cause, or a category for my STBXH's behaviour, or even argue if his behaviour should be described in such a medical textbook.

However it is reassuring to see his actions are so non unique, that they can be described so accurately. That his behaviour isn't a figment of my imagination.

Life is a bit shit right now, but thank goodness these behaviours and choices are coming out of the closet or off the computer screen, so that women can make informed choices about who they date, marry and have children with.

I do not want to talk out of turn, but whilst we may be talking about our individual relationships, on this thread we have identified parallels in the behaviour (and social conditioning perhaps?) of our partners and that, I believe, begs a question of how widespread these experiences and behaviour would be in the trans community as a whole.

I can most emphatically talk of my ex husband as he!

His exploration of his desire to become a woman, which then morphed into wanting to swing, wanting to have gay relationships, wanting to have a lesbian relationship with me, wanting to have no biological sex, and ultimately to having his penis surgically removed (after attempting to do it himself with a home made guillotine attached to an anvil on a rope over the garage rafters), led to him writing to me 6 months after the event saying it was a huge mistake, he had really just wanted to have wild sex with lots of people, and it was all my fault.

He had been coached on a "script" by the people he met at the local "TV/TS group" because that was the only way he could connect with other people on the trans pathway in the days before the internet. He told me so, and I saw how members of the group goaded one another on. That script was to threaten suicide to get the hormone treatment and surgery he thought he wanted and to speed up the assessment process. My solicitor was very firmly of the belief that his continued repetition of the statement was designed to manipulate capitulation to his demands as his actions didn't tie in with his claims about his mental health.

So, if Mumsnet have been bullied into their stance on moderation because of claims of a person being suicidal, my experience makes me think there may be manipulation going on there too.

Fuck me 😱 @Farinthepast

Yes, it was a bit off the scale for a while - but as I've said upthread, I didn't have children so it was only me to consider. Divorcing him was the best thing that I could have done for my mental health because he had absolutely no consideration for mine.

I'd be surprised if any trans widows reading this thread for support wouldn't benefit from separating from their partners, whether there are children involved or not. I still loved and cared for my husband when I started to talk about separating from him, but his narcissism came to the fore when I started divorce proceedings and that love evaporated quickly.

@Farinthepast

What a mess isn't it.

I'm still veering wildly from "hell mend him" because of his abusive behaviour, to feeling absolutely powerless and desperately sad for him. Because I still believe his behaviour is born of madness rather than badness.

Home made guillotine? And folk went with the sound mind/gender feels thing? Bloody hell.

We are at the stage where the kids know that Daddy plans to change, they spend the weekends with him.

He has told everyone at his place of work. Most of our social circle and the school parents know now. Wanted to get that done before the summer holidays so that it will be old news by next year, hopefully to avoid more trauma for the kids. His change is incredibly rapid.