Trans Widows escape committee

[TinselAngel]

This is a second attempt to start a thread for women who have been, or are still in unhappy relationships with Trans partners.

Having got out of a marriage to a man who transitioned shortly after we split, it would be good to be able to support others in a similar situation.

I know there's a few of you out there?

Wonderful advice everyone; thank you.

Re: my health -- One of you mentioned that he "gets off" hurting me and I had to chuckle, because that's exactly right. Also the bit about using my daughter as a pawn. You get this. I know you're right there with me. // The best thing for me is to move on from him in every way. I must give myself credit in this area: I only speak to him via text and about essential things, I've changed the photos in the house / boxed up his possessions / etc, I change the subject when mutual friends bring him up, and, very much unlike him, I refuse to talk about this situation around town. But I run into trouble in two areas a) every week with childcare issues (I learn what he's done and I can't help but get angry) and b) with the LGBT+ topic.
Regarding the LGBT+ topic, it's my own damn fault. I take full responsibility for reading the news and even (at times -- I have phases) actively reading gender critical blogs and news. I had same-sex relationships in the past and as a teenager was very active in promoting same-sex marriage here in the US… a lot of effort invested in this movement which now seems to have turned against me. That might be a good metaphor for what's happening to me internally when I read gender critical blogs. I just need to stay away from them for my own health. (I don't need unnecessary anger.)

Re: my daughter's health -- She is such a good girl. It makes me smile to type "my daughter's health" because I know she's happy and she'll be okay. :)
I often wonder how my husband developed NPD. He's the first grandson of a large, influential family. My sense is that the whole family manifests it to some degree. Cloistered, selfish groupthink. // As far as my daughter goes, she is the first grandchild, and she's been very spoiled by my in laws (ice cream for dinner, loads of toys, bedtime at 10pm, and they basically allow her to make decisions for the group both moment by moment and for the day).

So I plan to be the steady hand for my daughter: tell her the truth about sexual dimorphism, show her what it means to be responsible, teach her what commitment looks like, show her that identity and self respect come from working / contributing to a community, etc. But I also need to counteract to some degree the indulgence of my ex and in laws so that she doesn't become NPD herself. She comes home every Sunday, and it takes two days before she adjusts to her routine, discipline, and 8:30 bedtime. And I consider myself an very lenient parent… we practiced extended breastfeeding, baby wearing, bedsharing, etc.

I know I can do this! My daughter loves best to be home. She is a good girl and if I demonstrate responsibility and humility, she will choose the right path.

For all others considering divorce --
I can't say whether I recommend divorce. I am in the most difficult phase of it (adjusting to custody and preparing to give my ex my house) so my words are colored and skewed. Whereas in the marriage I kept a fantasy that things would get better, I now have no fantasies. Yet I prefer reality. In addition, you know what I have found? That I am as strong as I was before the marriage, that I am as free as I was before the marriage, and that I can dedicate my life to a higher purpose again … that I am more than a support structure for my husband.
Additional advice: Funnel away money early and often. Make copies of all paperwork (tax docs, retirement statements, etc.). Take photos and keep a journal. Enter mediation for the divorce if at all possible. If you husband is NPD, prepare for litigation. Divorce with an NPD is traumatic -- my husband considered it all-out war and pulled every stop (assaulting me, calling ambulance to the house alleging I was suicidal, took our pets and gave them away, you name it). You might not be able to control whether it goes that route, so get your ducks in a row. Splitting custody? I thought 50/50 would be okay; my attorney suggested every other weekend; I settled for 2.5 days a week. Ex has already lost interest. My daughter lives with my MIL who enables him; ex lives in another town. So I recommend getting as much custody as possible. You can always offer your ex to watch / visit your children on days assigned to you.

Melanie Tonia Evans on YouTube has a great video series on NPD abuse.

Also, I don't want to misrepresent all of these AGPs as visible monsters. What's so tricky about it is that I presume most of them are like my ex. He's a short, feminine man, always picked on as a kid. Very handsome. He'll go out of his way for anyone, really makes a great impression. Memory like a camera. He's outspoken and funny and his confidence is off the charts.
I understand why people root for him… that's what makes this so hard.

For the record, ex was US military and is now in IT.

Best of luck to you, ladies.

Thank you all for sharing. I haven't spoken to anyone about my husband. I feel strange unburdening. I've been married for 23 years and been together 24. I have told him a few times that if I had my time again that I would choose not to be with him. He is kind, loving and he adores me, he is my friend. Within the first blossoming of our relationship he did say he was 'TV' ( what the fuck I thought, what did it mean...then it dawned). Ok I thought, dressing up sometimes; no biggie. It's been a biggie; developed over time in its intensity as it's wont to do. He has tried so hard to understand himself, why he is what he is. He has all the classic features of upbringing of an autogynephile (did I spell correctly? It's a strange word for my predictive text ). Anyway, a mother who wanted a girl, emotionally abusive, an emotionally absent father, being dressed up at an early age by next door neighbours as a girl (and other things methinks but can't recall). How would I know in my naivety, that this 'issue' would develop in intensity over time like a parasite invading our relationship. Age; as they get older, they get more frantic. They realise they can't be that woman that the see so clearly in their mind , that lovely epitome of 'feminity '(of course a massive, and I mean MASSIVE gender stereotyping here) but what they see is a big six footer of a bloke in a wig, crappy makeup Helga tits (sorry about the cultural stereotyping here, but that's my name for him and his gargantuan prophetic tips ( prosthetic tits-I kept the predictive text in). I told him "its how you feel, does it make you feel good " etc, etc. He didn't. He knew what he was. Then, over time (started about 5 years ago I think) it grew , and just after that his mother (bitch- apologies I can't help myself) died it triggered it even more. He plucked his eyebrow- asked him not to-he continued, and obviously I told him he had Vulcan eyebrows (or did I say Ming the Merciless ), they looked bloody awful. What a turn off! I didn't mind the nose hair and ear holes being de-turfed, but I didn't take to his arms being shaved or his legs on the occasional times he went out.He knows I hated all this, hate all this. He went on frickin photoshoots, posing. He used to get upset that I didn't want to see his photos. Once I capitulated; and I was brutally honest and told him he looked like his mother (bitch ) in drag (he was a bit put out by that). He's put pictures of himself on websites where men "fancy" him and they had "sexy" conversations (using the keyboard of course). Why oh why is this linked to sex and sexuality ?(can't stand it). Yes I do know , bloody mother issues (bitch). He's been on sex lines both keyboard and phone pretending to be a woman ( he could be jacking off to a man or woman, god knows). I've asked him not to do it, but he ends up doing it eventually as it's so linked to his sex thing and the frustration seems uncontrollable ). I remember one time going to a fancy dress party with him (superhero, and you know what women superheros look like-perky but heavy mammaries ,voluptuous but athletic figures, ad nauseum ). He was miserable throughout, the bloody bastard, miserable. Oh, because he could never look like them. I agreed with him and told him.

I could go on and on, and I may need to do so, it's all come out in a stream.. I'm so pleased I have found a safe way to vent. Things are on more of an even keel at the moment. He just feels the need to dress to relax rather than an overwhelming urge. He doesn't get much opportunity to dress- our children still live at home. However the sexthing is an issue. I wonder why I don't have much sex. Durr!

My STBXH was my "friend" as long as I did everything he wanted and agreed with everything he said. If I didn't it was either sulky tantrums, suicide threats or screaming in my face.

Don't blame his mother for his behaviour. He's a grown man who can make his own choices. It is easier to blame her, to see her as the cause of his behaviour, because it hurts less, it isn't then him doing it to you.

So many of us have less than perfect parents, have had rough starts, but don't behave in a selfish, abusive manner.

Wise words birdbandit, ones I would use for others. You are right. I shouldn't blame the mother anymore; it happened. Like I said, he has worked on himself to understand why he is this way; and he does understand. Ultimately he can't change who is is. It has been dampened down. He thankfully isn't abusing. I'm just really blunt with him; sometimes I take the piss out of him (too much sometimes) I suppose to show him that I detest it. I love him deeply and him, I.

Welcome aboard Phantom, a lot of your story is very familiar- marrying a transvestite, thinking it was fairly harmless and the gradual escalation of the dressing and the continual lies and erosion of boundaries.

Why do we accept such selfish behaviour? Usually we're so emotionally and financially invested in the relationship by that time, it feels like we have no choice. It's very hard to respect them when they don't care what they put us through, and of course respect is vital in a relationship.

Thanks TinselAngel. It's actually wonderful to bare all; and you all understand! I've kept it secret for so long.

Hi phantom, I would argue his doing things he knows you hate, his sexy keyboard chat with others, his photos etc, are an odd way of demonstrating that he "loves" you. It shouldn't be that you fight over this, that you use words like "capitulating" and think that's ok.

Welcome to the club, could I pour you a virtual ?

Bird is basically saying the same as me but in a more direct way. My ex and I loved each other very much and I thought he was my best friend, but he behaved towards me in ways that you would never expect a friend to put up with.

Don't feel trapped in something phantom if it's making you miserable. Ask Bird- she knows, and more recently than me!

It's lovely to feel supported birdbandit and TinselAngel. Indeed.

@MTFisAGP you sound very calm and sorted, that is great.

@PhantomSelf I am so sorry, that sounds so difficult.

Yeah. He knows if things get intense again it's game over really; he knows I don't want to deal with the shit re:dressing he went through.

Honestly phantom leave now, or make plans to. He isn't going to magically stop doing this, as much as you want him to come to his senses and stop being a wker. Trust me, we have all hoped that our AGPs would receive that bolt of recognition, that they would understand that their heads are porn and fetish addled, be embarrassed and shake it off, go back to being the non AGP fellow we imagined them to be.

It is a binge/purge cycle, and you will feel better when you don't have to worry about when he might start up again.

This is who he is, let him be who he is, and you move on with your life. Good luck.

@PhantomSelf I've not been in your situation. But this topic of 'trans' issues is one that interests me.

Plus a long interest in marriage problems/divorce etc. Probably born from having had at least a couple of friends who left abusive marriages (sadly one who returned to her abusive partner).

So that is my reason for being here.

Because as someone not in an abusive marriage, I can at least see what is going on for others.

And sometimes it seems women in abusive marriages cannot see it.

I just wanted to ask "...have told him a few times that if I had my time again that I would choose not to be with him."

Do you really mean this?

If you would not choose to be with him, if you had your time again, why do you stay? My friend is over 50 and is due to 're-marry this year after half a lifetime in an abusive (not cross dressing related) marriage.

Italian, your input it entirely helpful, you don't need to be a widow to be here!

This is really all just abusive and controlling behaviour, we are just unlucky that our abusers have their behaviour wrapped up in the fashionable veneer of being progressive.

Except it isn't.

AGP is to transgender, what flashers are to naturists. Similar in sartorial choice, but with a hugely different motivation.

In my own experience, and from talking to other people in the same situation, this type of behaviour only ever escalates phantom, and when ever they have you convinced that's not the case they're either on a temporary purge, of they're just lying and hiding things.

Thank you all for your messages. I do appreciate them.

Thank you @birdbandit

Hi All

With the increased attention the FWR board is currently getting, I'm wondering if I should ask for this thread to be moved to somewhere more discrete for the time being to protect posters privacy? What do you all think?

Good idea, not for me but for others. Maybe 'relationships'.

I'm happy for people to read this. I don't think I have said anything which identifies me, and everything I say I can PROOVE, should my personal life collide with my online chat. If anything I have minimised.

I really don't want my personal crisis to be understood as a wider political problem, because it isn't. My experience is of one relationship with one man who exhibits AGP. I think it is right that our experience isn't hidden away.

I think most folk think Trans equals gender dysmorphia, and that anything else is the invention of bigots. So if we keep on talking, comparing notes, supporting each other as the reasonable and real women that we are, it would surely get more difficult to entirely dismiss our evidence and experience?

But saying that, happy to go with the majority feeling.

I don't mind.

So my STBXH has told the kids he plans to transition.

(I had a flick through this thread, I can't believe that back in February I couldn't imagine that this was going to be his decision. It transpires that he has already put his name on a waiting list for hormones, he hadn't told me this, but claims he did. Usual gaslighting nonsense. I am worried about the speed in which this is all happening.)

It went well at the time. He has a marvellous pitch, honestly every time he tells his story it get further backdated, and more "understandable". He's going for the female thoughts not matching his body, and this makes him sad narrative.

It is a glorious pitch, he comes out at both victim and hero, with a generous serving of his being a super brained genius, he's so, so clever, he managed to fool us all, for so long!

Utter nonsense, made less plausible by the threads I have seen on Reddit and crossdressers.com, where the posters coach each other as to what to say.

He is not the good liar of his imagination, he is taking credit for people being polite. I don't think he is anymore convincing than the average flat earthier, or person who believes the queen is a lizard.

My chat with the kids has been to reinforce my belief that there are not female thoughts or male thoughts, that there are socialised norms, and as daddy feels sad, and wishes to change his appearance. We don't have to agree to be kind.

Again this is so sad, I understand that the foolish man is having a crisis, that he wishes to perform a different sexual role. But the only "legitimate" way he can, in his own mind, is to rebrand his body as female. I wish he were brave enough to understand that, whilst it wouldn't be for me, he can explore his submission/humiliation fetish as the man he is. That he is ok.

I also wish he weren't such a nasty arse. He was over yesterday, and whilst he is being "polite", his face when he talks to me, he really doesn't like me.

He hates me because I am a natal woman, and worse one who won't reimagine my world and history to meet his fairytale.

I also found out what he has been telling his family, they have cut off contact.

Apparently he is a victim of depression, and I have been so horrible to him, unsupportive, drove him to the brink of suicide.

Not true.

What is true is that he has been given a mild dose of antidepressants.

What is true is that I took him to a private doctor, and begged her to recommend he be checked at the Priory, he was admitted, paid for by his work medical insurance. This wasn't that he was so bad the NHS stepped in.

He was threatening suicide as a means of manipulating me. It was an abusive act. He wrote an 8 page diatribe of a letter about how I was forcing him to kill him self, because I wouldn't shut up and put up.

It wasn't the first time he had threatened to kill himself. He did the same when I said no to shagging his list of randoms, to satisfy his cuckolding fetish. He did the same when I found condoms in his gym bag.

But every time he gets his victim hat on, I'm the one who has "trust issues" that I'm mental, forcing him into depression etc.

And in the Priory? They spent time dealing with his porn addiction, but again that's my fault. He wouldn't have a porn addiction if I weren't so mean, it makes him sad/depressed, and porn is an escape. During his stay he wrote another letter which detailed his addiction, chatlines, forums, how many hours a day etc. It was embarrassing to read, and I cannot believe it was anything other than the tip of the iceberg.

But my fault, remember.

I cannot believe I was dim enough to marry and have children with this grimwad of a moron.

Internalised homophobia is what is making him depressed, and not having the internal resources to deal with "no".

Also my saying "you're not a beautiful genius, you are a very angry man".

He's a weird combination of a huge ego, where he has placed himself on a pedestal, but it is a fragile veneer and cracks easily. Then you see the anger and the self loathing.

@birdbandit "He is not the good liar of his imagination, he is taking credit for people being polite. I don't think he is anymore convincing than the average flat earthier, or person who believes the queen is a lizard."

Just remember you know what happened and really you and your children are your priority, if others are polite, fine, if they believe him, fine, if not fine. Try not to allow his shenanigans to matter to you, if you can. I know it must be hugely difficult.

"But every time he gets his victim hat on, I'm the one who has "trust issues" that I'm mental, forcing him into depression etc. " But you do not have trust issues, you just don't trust him. It's not the same thing. Do you need to engage with him? Are you living apart now? Is he engaging with you via email, phone, in person? Sorry, can't remember the exact details.

"They spent time dealing with his porn addiction, but again that's my fault. Is he saying it is your fault to you or to others? I think if he is telling others you could either just ignore it or set the record straight only if it comes up and you need to 'defend' yourself. If he is saying this directly to you, can you disengage?

"He wouldn't have a porn addiction if I weren't so mean, it makes him sad/depressed, and porn is an escape. During his stay he wrote another letter which detailed his addiction, chatlines, forums, how many hours a day etc. It was embarrassing to read, and I cannot believe it was anything other than the tip of the iceberg." What response does he expect from you reading all this? What response will you give?

"I cannot believe I was dim enough to marry and have children with this grimwad of a moron." That's the past, we all make mistakes. But you have your lovely children and now you need to focus on the future. They can indeed be kind to him without buying into his circus.

"He's a weird combination of a huge ego, where he has placed himself on a pedestal, but it is a fragile veneer and cracks easily. Then you see the anger and the self loathing." He sounds very dangerous, can you limit how much you engage. He may find hep when he is ready to move on or whatever.