Trans Widows escape committee

[TinselAngel]

This is a second attempt to start a thread for women who have been, or are still in unhappy relationships with Trans partners.

Having got out of a marriage to a man who transitioned shortly after we split, it would be good to be able to support others in a similar situation.

I know there's a few of you out there?

Few things make me cry - this thread has. If I could pick all you brave, brave woman up and take you to safety and peace I would. You have my full support and admiration for your bravery and love for your children.

Bird, I think that if you don't tell your kids what PP's have called an "age appropriate truth", then you will only be doing so because that is what your ex wants/ demands, thus allowing him to still be in control.

You should tell them whatever the hell you want to tell them within the bounds of what is appropriate. Why should they have both their parents lying to them?

The trouble with age appropriate truth (and like Italiangreyhound we've done it with adoption) is that suddenly teenagers realise it's all sugar coated, and the truth we've been trying to tell them is that their parent(s) are shitting on them from a height. The outcome isn't pretty.

Better to be honest though. If their "dad" is a shit, tell them, don't let them think their mum is also a shit for supporting their shit dad. Remember, when you are on your death bed you want to be able to look your children in the eye and say "I did my best, I was honest, I tried to protect you (even if I didn't always manage it, I tried)". They will realise and they will appreciate it.

to everyone on this thread. Your children (and you) will come out the other side.

My age appropriate truth doesn't exclude detailing that Daddy has been very unkind to Mummy and wants things that are unacceptable in a marriage and so on. Age appropriate means not going into details of sexual fetish and somehow making that age appropriate...

What did you decide, Bird?

I decided to be the best parent I can be, and to take my time. The STBXH isn't out, nor is he consistent about what he thinks he might want/believe or do. I don't know if he ever will be.

Love bombing the kids, and trying to sort out my home/career, with the hope that one day I can be free, or at least not so engrossed by all this, and that this will be the key to providing a safe and settled space for the kids.

Can I ask if you lovely ladies have any advice as to how to go emotionally no contact, but still share kids with dastardly STBXH?

He gets off on seeing me exasperated/upset, he's playing a one way game of "I'm a better woman than you", it is grim.

He is at the stage where he has lost tons of weight, wearing bojangle jewellery, heavy and inexpertly applied foundation, super tight jeans and an androgynous shirt unbuttoned to the near nipple line. He's mid 40s, and combing his hair over his balding crown. He's also wearing a coquettish, eyelash fluttering cloak of "fragile victim".

He thinks he is being discreet, but already his business partner is asking me questions. The school gate harridans have gone for the assumption that he's just really sad and ill after our split, and I must be bad.

Any pro tips, aside living in a cave drinking gin, for this stage?

birdbandit - the best advice is to follow the advice of mothers on relationship/lone parent boards with abusive/emotionally abusive exs. So 1 form of communication - a dedicated email or phone only used for communication about children/contact.
Hand overs at least at the gate, better via school (so he picks up at school and drops them back there after overnights).
Depending on the age of DC the more you can hand over to them, can they organise times? Get themselves there and back?

As for school you could "confide" in the biggest gossips.

I read this with interest, as my friend is a trans widow. She left her first husband when their kids were young (one still a baby) and moved in with a man she worked with. He refused to consider taking on another man's children so she left them behind with their dad and didn't see them apart from a couple of times a year despite living locally. After 10 years together they married, but only because her exH had married and had another baby that year (after being a single parent all that time). When the kids were much older (late teens) they started seeing her again. She didn't have any more children as her H didn't want any.

It's now 18 years since my friend married her partner. 5 years ago he told her he was gay, had always been secretly gay, and was having a relationship with another man from work. This humiliated her because she still works with him, and the new boyfriend was also her colleague who she had been friendly with. They separated but couldn't sell their house so have been living in it as housemates. She is a kinship carer for her grandchild whose parents died, the child has grown up calling the husband Granddad. Last year he told her he was living a lie and had decided to transition to being a woman called Cindy. He now lives as a woman full time, goes to work as a woman, is around the child as a woman.

My friend is devastated. She has been humiliated even more at work. Her grandchild is confused. Her first husband is angry that the grandchild has been exposed to this at a young age, although funnily enough his current wife is really supportive to my friend and has been a great shoulder to cry on. My friend feels that her life has been completely wrecked and although she made the decision to have an affair and leave her husband and kids for this man, he was dishonest about what he could offer and she feels bitter. She is a subject of gossip at work but feels she can't leave because she's coming up to retirement age in a few years and will have a decent pension after 40 years service.

Wow this is long. I just felt that there were so many parallels with some of the stories here. The change by stealth, the lies, the fighting, the theft of a life.

Bird I agree with the PP, only communicate with him in writing (email?) and only then practical things about the children. Anything to do with money or changes to child arrangements through a solicitor.

Don't engage about anything else.

With regards to other people, a couple of my close friends did what we named "Operation tell the nice people", so a few people were told the truth and could check any of the wilder rumours.

@birdbandit "Can I ask if you lovely ladies have any advice as to how to go emotionally no contact, but still share kids with dastardly STBXH?"

As I hvae said before I am not in your position so I cannot give advice from my own personal experiences. However, a while ago I got talking to someone on line who had a rather abusive relationship with her mum. We talked about ways to avoid making emoptional type contact but without actually going no contact.

I found a lot of sites talking about 'grey rock' and low contact.

Grey rock is where you make yourself as boring and possible and only talk about very mundane stuff (like the weather or whatever). There are dangers associated with this because it is emotionally draining to have to exist like this. And for some when a parent is abusive, it really is best to go no contact. However, if you are sharing child care responsibilities then going no contact may not be possible and also to some degree being in contact, and at least knowing what is going on, might be best (or rather better than being totally in the dark).

"He gets off on seeing me exasperated/upset, he's playing a one way game of "I'm a better woman than you", it is grim." It sounds utterly shit. However, knowing that he is playing this game you can play the game better than him, and win. It will be hard but once he realises he is getting nothing from you, he might just stop. Or he might just escalate things, in which case you could fake some outrage now and again, while learning privately to let his crap go.

"He thinks he is being discreet, but already his business partner is asking me questions." Does the business partner know you are separated? If so, you can simply say you cannot discuss your STBXH with his business partner. Even if the situation is not common knowledge, you can still not say anything you don't want to.

It's not your job to tell the business of your STBXH, if he wants you to do it, refuse, if he doesn' want you to do it and you do he could use it play the victim later. So just stay tight lipped, change the subject. If in doubt what to talk about ask this other guy some questions, total crap if necessary "You losing weight?" "What's your fitness regime." "Seen the new Peter Rabbit movie?" (If you have young kids etc.)

"The school gate harridans have gone for the assumption that he's just really sad and ill after our split, and I must be bad." It's really your choice to tell them what you want them to know. Our marriage fell apart, it wasn't my fault. I;m too upset to talk about it." That all sounds fine to me.

XXX

But I do agree that contact by email or text on a designated phone is safest, proof of what has been said etc.

CthulhuInDisguise I'm sorry your friend is going through this but to be honest she left her kids and barely saw them. I don't think anyone on this thread has done that. They've coped with difficult situations while also looking after their kids.

Thanks for the advice. I'll do the grey rock thing, won't be too hard, all he does is talk about himself! He has no real interest in how I am doing.

Time will fix this, his business partner has guessed that he is having "gender identity issues", I haven't confirmed this, I wouldn't chat about him there, it wouldn't be productive.

The sadness in all this is that I think he is being failed by this trans gender trend. He isn't gender dysmorphic, he doesn't hate his penis, he is very fond of his penis, but he wants to rebrand it. He has very fixed views on what a woman is, and he wants to behave as the stereotype, beautiful, coquettish, submissive, used.

Instead of accessing help to find a way to embrace these aspects, of the person he is, he is being swept up in transitioning, into being what he imagines a woman to be.

He is a lost man, he has had very real obsessions before, sexual and otherwise, and I fear that he is going to crash when this isn't the panacea he imagines it to be.

Birdbandit

I just wanted to give you some and say how much I admire you. What you have been through is truly awful but you are strong and kind and I really think you and your kids will be ok.

Big bouquets of to all the transwidows here.

@Birdbandit I think your husband is indeed being failed but I also think he has failed you and so you are right to priorities yourself and your kids.

italiangreyhound i don't disagree with you. I didn't know her at the time but her first husband is a lovely guy and she feels guilty for hurting him, and can't forgive herself for abandoning her kids. Her eldest was seriously ill as a child and spent a lot of time in hospital. She didn't cope well and dealt with it by checking out of their lives.

I do feel it is possible to feel sympathy for someone who may have acted unacceptably in the past. Nobody is perfect. I can't imagine leaving my kids but plenty of people do.

Another one here recommending the grey rock method. If you Google it there is lots of advice. Here's one example

www.aconsciousrethink.com/6158/gray-rock-method-dealing-narcissist/

@CthulhuInDisguise "I do feel it is possible to feel sympathy for someone who may have acted unacceptably in the past. Nobody is perfect. I can't imagine leaving my kids but plenty of people do."

Yes, of course you can.

I have a teenage child and certainly feel like 'checking out' at times -but don't.

Maybe I am judging your friend, which is unfair as planety of men check out of their kids lives.

Anyway, it is good she has got you to support her. I think if I were your friend I would leave my partner if he did that to me. But some people can and do live with it.

Big bouquets of flowers to all the transwidows here.

I echo this. You are really strong women on this thread. I think very highly of how you are holding your families together in the face of, really quite nasty, issues. It is what I love about women. You all rock and have my support.

CthulhuInDisguise Whatever your friend did in the past, what she is going through now will be so difficult for her personally, as well as for the wider family. I think the only way I managed to get through my messy separation and divorce was because there was no crossover between my exhusband and friends/work. About 10 years after we separated, I met somebody in a professional capacity who had worked with him, and was still in contact, and the surge of humiliation I felt was overwhelming. To deal with that on a daily basis, knowing that it will continue for some years, will be hard. I wish her strength.

Bird keep on in there. Try not to engage other than by email.
One of the things that helped me was to say to my ex, and myself: "we are responsible for our own choices" because I was constantly being told I was responsible for his mental state. If he crashes, he crashes, and it's on him. In the midst of the emotional wrangle you are going through, I imagine there is still some love/human compassion/concern for the father of your children, but try to distance yourself emotionally from him before that happens.

Hello ladies,

I want to say something brave, useful, and insightful. I want to strengthen and support you. I want to take all of your pain away, to wrap you up in my arms, to find a way to make you laugh and smile again.

I want these things for you because I know that this is what I need too.

You must be as utterly drained and defeated as I am.

I think of Willy Lohman sometimes, how tragedy is slow and indiscernible, and then sudden and complete. That's what life was for me: I was the frog in the pot slowly warming. I allowed myself to be groomed, to be disrespected. It happened over the course of years. We were married for three… the AGP slowly becoming more acceptable, more visible. He told me that I had to fix myself, that I had family problems, that I had postpartum depression. The boundaries that I set were ignored. Reality denied. I was isolated.

And then it all happened at once: the day after I bought us a house (my money), he kidnapped our daughter and filed for custody. Behind my back, he "came out" as "transgender" to mutual friends.
It gets worse.

I don't know if it helps to tell the story. I desperately want people (THE MEDIA) to understand exactly what MtF transgenderism is:

MtF transgenderism is a man's desire to fulfill his sexual fetish at all costs.

From my lived experience and from the stories that I have read, AGP is highly correlated with narcissistic personality disorder. NPD is the poison pond from which the AGP "female" sub personality emerges. As sad as AGP is, NPD is fucking frightening.

Wow I sound dramatic. Apologies. In my defense though, this year has been a bottomless hell, where every week things get worse. Imagine your abuser being vindicated as a cultural hero by his family and your town; imagine social workers telling you get on board in supporting him -- the isolation and the fear that I feel in my position is palpable. It makes me sick.

My poor daughter. She is two years old. Custody has been settled; he has her 2.5 days / week. He is raising her to "choose her own gender;" in addition to the trauma of the divorce (me being suddenly propelled back to work we are losing the house soon; she now goes to three different houses home, my mum's, my MIL's, and daycare) she is now expressing genuine confusion with things her dad is telling her (she said last night, and I quote, "Dada says he is becoming a woman. … Am I becoming a boy?").

I know it's trite to ask for prayers. I am asking for an exorcism. Please, to anyone reading this, do all that you can to speak out against this ideology. It's a sexual fetish in men. The women who are most affected by this are not allowed to speak out. Please be our voice.

To the other ladies in my situation -- I am so sorry. I am so, so sorry. You do not deserve this.

I am a beautiful, intelligent, strong young woman. Despite the marital discord, I was happy until the day of the kidnapping. I was in shock for months afterward, when the abuse got bad, when the police were involved, when we first started appearing in court. I mostly feel ill these days (like my batteries were spent months ago and I have no idea how to recharge). I do not know how to be in public I do not know how to talk to anyone because I can either provide the most unbelievable divorce story that you've ever heard that makes you want to question your progressive political narrative, or I can keep utterly silent. Which I inevitably do.

So, ladies. Until the day we can meet in person and venture into the wilderness and scream until our bodies give,
we are here at least, together, with our words
& I hear your screams loud and clear. I hear your voice, amplifying mine.

Thank you for everything, ladies. You are doing a great job. Take good care of yourselves tonight.

Hi MTF,

Goodness, you sound heartbroken, and I completely understand.

It's horrible isn't it, knowing that the hero is a liar, people telling you that it is ok for him to have been abusive towards you, because of his victim status. Clearly you gave no value or status in their estimation.

Your poor child. I think my AGP (although he is rebranding that, apparently he could only express his feeling in a sexual way before, and I should forget all that unpleasantness) will start to try and explain himself to the kids after Easter.

I wish I could say to you to do this, or that, and that it will get better. My plan is to keep my head high, not not court controversy, I can't be arsed trying to argue with stupid. Friends who think it's ok for me to be abused aren't friends. I can make better ones. I can work hard and I can slip away from this shite of a situation.

Channel your anger, he wants to hurt you, frankly he gets off on it. Let him think he's winning, but honestly narcissists can be managed. He's so deluded, he is so willing to believe it's all about him, chuck kibbles his way to keep the peace, then get on with your own life. Remember, if he's gunning for you, it's because you are doing it right, you are getting away.

Also, remember not to give your ex gifts.

Your XPs interest and actions regarding your daughter, are not about her, but about the NPD. She's a prop. Your daughter is useful as a means to hurt you, and also as a prop to demonstrate his "worth" as a caring parent.

Your showing that this works, that you are hurt is a gift to your ex. Now you have the custody worked out. You can't change the agreement, but you can change how you react about it. Sadly your child will learn from your ex, and in the future from other places, things which you don't agree with. The best thing you can do it to be consistent, to keep talking to your child, as they get older explain your position. Trust that your child will value you.

As your reaction and child become less valuable to your NPD ex, then things will change, he will find new toys to play with and you can get away.

Good luck you marvellous woman.

MTFisAGP I just want to say, I hear you - I know what your ex is doing is wrong, to the point of illegal (abusive).
It's hard when you, the expert, are ignored or silenced when you KNOW the truth. Most people just don't want to hear I do know that.

The tide is turning, more and more people are beginning to wake up to this new way that privileged males can be abusive to people they know and are intimate with.
The more stories out there the more evidence that this is a new tactic for abusing women in the same old way. Thank you for posting your experience.
I know there is nothing I can say or do to make things better - but bird has come up with some brilliant words and I believe she is right, re child care - when tough parenting comes into play and interferes with his new sparkly life, you may find he fades away. Hope you and your child find a safe place without him in your lives.

Also, I know you probably have, but talk to a lawyer and make a diary of all the things your daughter says to you - it might be useful in the future when renegotiating custody.

@MTFisAGP I am so very sad to hear your story.

I am not a Trans widow but within our wider family and friends we have girls/young women presenting as possibly trans, also 'gender fluid' etc. It's been very challenging.

Those wise trans widows have given great advice. Keep a record of his shenanigans, is there any way to keep a digital record with dates etc, safely? Of the things he says and does?

Also (obviously) make sure you stick to rules, always on time etc and record when/if he fails to do so.

Your daughter is being influenced by her father but she is also spending time away from him and seeing the norma,l real world.

Make your life together fantastic, let her see you having fun.

Yes, i am sure it is incredibly hard.

I am an adopter and we have a saying, 'Fake it til you make it' that's what you need to do IMHO. Until you can fully regain your peace and fun again.

My friend's husband kidnapped her dd. It was many years ago. She had to go through legal challenge to get her back.

It was tough but over the years the dad just drifted into the background. He had his own mental health issues, not AGP. I guess I am saying bide your time. He will lose interest probably.

Make your time with dd count. Make it about her. She will soon lose interest in listening to her father muse on about his 'womanhood'. Always be the parent putting her first (I know you are). Xxxxx

Can you work more when he has your dd and less when you have her, compressed hours etc?