James O'Brien: what a twat

[SelmaAndJubjub]

Explained in this link. Basically, he bullied and shut down a female caller who said she'd be frightened to share a changing room with men. He didn't just take an opposing view - he ridiculed her.

Yet another liberal bro reveals himself as a misogynist. And a stupid one. Even if he doesn't care about women in general, he has 2 pre-teen daughters. Will he really want them changing and showering with men?

I think most of us already have you pegged as an MRA, Ruth. So I don't think I'll bother reading the rest of your very long post. (Another sign of the MRAs - they type overly long boring posts).

Point proven.

*long, boring posts - with no relevance to the OP.

When 93% of UK women don't want to call themselves a feminist and when there are groups like 'Women Against Feminism' you have to ask why.

I suggest you post that on a thread where it is relevant to the subject matter. This one is about James O'Brien.

You're welcome!

Just want to say I'm baffled at Ruth's idea of "toxic feminists". The ones I know are funny and warm and wise and brilliant. They're angry, yeah, but why wouldn't you be?
^^
This
UnbridledRuth
When 93% of UK women don't want to call themselves a feminist and when there are groups like 'Women Against Feminism' you have to ask why
No actually, we dont.

Ruth well done for keeping going!

Virtue signalling is such an odd insult I always think.

Amazing how the trans debates here almost only focus on mtf.

Women and men have different vulnerabilities as said before. In the western world boy foetuses are more likely to die in pregnancy, baby boys are more likely than die from illness and being killed, boys are likely to be hit more and harder than their girl contempories. They are more likely to have disabilities including developmental disabilities. They are more likely to need mental health services as children. They are more likely to die in accidents and from suicide as they get older. They are more likely to die younger. And there are many other ways in which they are vulnerable.

They are also more likely to be perpetrators of violence including sexual violence and they are more likely to end up in prison.

Of course girls and women have other different vulnerabilities inclidung at the hands of men. But the patriarchy does not just hurt women and girls.

People who feel they are born into the wrong body are more likely to have autistic traits than those who don’t, they are also more likely to have been in the care system and had complex histories. As I said yesterday, the biggest rise at the moment is in born girls feeling they are in the wrong body. I find it hard to understand the lack of empathy.

What lack of empathy do you mean? James O'Brien's?

when there are groups like 'Women Against Feminism' you have to ask why

Same reason there were groups like the Women's Anti-Suffrage League a hundred years ago. Not new. Where are you getting your information about feminism, Ruth? You do seem to have a lot of US-specific MRA talking points immediately to hand, and while I'm sure you are merely a good-hearted entirely genuine woman who's not an MRA yourself - who would doubt it? - MRAs do tend to lie.

Plus, if we're going to look overseas to other countries to pull out examples about the US military and US women's voting rights (?! I have no idea) and the views of US organisations like RAINN, why limit yourself to the US? Why not look at FGM in Somalia, or child marriage in Nepal?

But the patriarchy does not just hurt women and girls.

No, it hurts men and boys too. But given it hurts women and girls more, across the globe - why is it feminism's duty to sort it out for men as well? Why isn't James O'Brien taking on the men who threaten (and hurt, and in some places even kill) trans people, who make them feel unsafe in men's changing rooms? Why is his contribution to this just to shout down women?

Assassinated I assume you are not being genuine- but in case you are- no I mean the lack of empathy on these boards shown to people who feel they were born wrong.

53rd I’m a woman and I consider myself a feminist. That doesn’t make me only want to help vulnerable women.

the patriarchy does not just hurt women and girls well no, and it would be absolutely amazing if there were a concerted attempt by concerned men to question and dismantle it we might start getting somewhere if that happened

But where are they? Why are they leaving it all to women who have so much less power and credibility to effect change?

I see the MRAs have arrived.

I don't want to derail further. i cannot resist

But feminists killed a dog? What conspiracy theory nonsense is this? I googled, found <a class="break-all" href="https://www.webcitation.org/6UKmcdccU?url=www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2000/apr/09/featuresreview.review2/print" rel="nofollow" target="_blank">www.webcitation.org/6UKmcdccU?url=www.theguardian.com/theobserver/2000/apr/09/featuresreview.review2/print

Both letters to JOB are superb, I'm disappointed he was a self righteous wanker over this.

FarFrom, you're talking about you as an individual person and the causes you follow. I'm talking about feminism as a movement. Sure, many of us individual people support other causes, too. But complaining that feminism as a cause isn't sufficiently attentive to the needs of men is missing the point. Causes are about rallying round a specific issue, that's how activism works. They can't deal equally with every bad thing that ever happened ever. Complaining that feminism isn't sufficiently attentive to the problems of men is like saying the RSPCA isn't sufficiently attentive to the problem of prison reform.

"As I said yesterday, the biggest rise at the moment is in born girls feeling they are in the wrong body. I find it hard to understand the lack of empathy."

I suspect for many of us it might in fact be a case of a great deal of empathy - because as children/teenagers, we were exactly those gender non-conforming girls (tomboys in old money) trying to identify out of the stereotypes that come with being female and into a world of greater freedom and possibility, and we feel this cold grip of fear that had we been born in this day and age we would have been pumped full of hormones and encouraged to mutilate ourselves surgically.

I have every sympathy with adults who have suffered over a prolonged period with gender dysphoria, and who find that presenting as the opposite sex alleviates their feelings of distress. But in all honesty, FarFrom, do you not look at the huge spike in teenage girls presenting as transgender, often quite suddenly, often (as you yourself have pointed out upthread) with co-existing conditions like autism, and think "hang on a minute - a 2000% increase in cases? Has no-one considered the possibility of social contagion here?"

I'm undoubtedly focusing more on one side of the argument here, but were I talking to a genuinely misogynistic MRA then I'd be more inclined to focus on the other - I refuse to pick sides.

I do find it hypocritical that we are expected to ignore the nutters in feminism and focus on the textbook definition, but it's ok to judge the men's rights movement on the actions of a few. If this is the case, then it would be disingenuous to discount people like Misandry Mermaid when talking about feminism.

'Men's rights activism' is nothing more than contributing to activism that helps men, and the large majority of people like myself involved in charities which primarily benefit disadvantaged men are not pickup artists or people like Roosh V.

To judge the men's rights movement on the actions of a few but to not do the same for feminism is disingenuous.

Erin Pizzey's dog got shot, nobody knows who shot the dog, it later got blamed on feminists who protested her work and now "feminists killed Erin Pizzey's dog!" does the rounds on MRA discussion forums as gospel truth.

Erin Pizzey is an interesting character anyway. I disagree with a ton of what she says, but she did great work setting up refuges when the world around her mostly ignored domestic violence as an issue. People are complicated.

Anyway, I have no desire to further derail so am stopping now.

Ok, I'll admit that Erin Pizzey's dog was maybe bit OTT. But she is another example of a woman who had done much for womankind than most women but had been spurned by many modern feminists for a few comments. I see this a lot.

Ruth, I like the idea of this 'men's rights activism' movement that's all about helping men and not about whining about women or having disturbing ideas about us. It's not the kind of MRA movement I've ever seen, but maybe things are different wherever you live! Can you name me a few men who self-identify as MRAs and have some kind of respected position in MRA communities who'd fit that description, so we could learn more?

Thanks 53rd

Agree EP is v interesting, and complicated character. I don't know enough about her, I own.

Ruth, you could stay and address the questions about what James O Brien said and the GRA?

It's possible to have more than one concern but why hijack threads? Just a start a new one or talk general in our pub chat section.

Erin Pizzey did a lot of good, ( did ) but I can't forgive her for joining the MRA. She speaks at the conferences organised by AVFM. You, know, that guy that says women ask to be raped. How could any woman, in all conscience, do that?

Little acknowledgement of the fact that US men have to sign up for the military draft to get the same voting rights of women.

That's not actually a fact. Maybe that's why there's so little acknowledgement?