James O'Brien: what a twat

[SelmaAndJubjub]

Explained in this link. Basically, he bullied and shut down a female caller who said she'd be frightened to share a changing room with men. He didn't just take an opposing view - he ridiculed her.

Yet another liberal bro reveals himself as a misogynist. And a stupid one. Even if he doesn't care about women in general, he has 2 pre-teen daughters. Will he really want them changing and showering with men?

Great responses from the caller and Fair Play for women.

I totally understand concerns about men with ill intentions using this as cover to access places which wouldn't otherwise be acceptable.

However, I find the above statement about middle class men wanting to steal women's rights ludicrous. I don't know any bloke that would chop his dick off or wear a dress just to spite women. I think most are genuinely confused/desire to be a woman, and I think nearly all would rather be biological women.

Tired typos

Most transwomen keep their male sexual organs.

FarFrom

You don't think there could be a link between 1) the erosion of women's rights and status relative to men's and 2) the growing preference of young female people to identify out of womanhood?

Whatwould possibly- but it seems people here feel that ftm are oppressed and struggling while Mtf are about oppressing those struggling. It seems a blinkered and prejudiced way to make sense of individual struggles.

"It seems a blinkered and prejudiced way to make sense of individual struggles."
Anybody what to do a Feminism 101 here? Nope, thought not.........
Whilst FarFrom just seems to want to play individualistic Oppression Olympics.
Yep, seen that one before folks!

Nobody is suggesting that women are "thrown under a bus". I'm just saying that IMO it's got to be much harder being a transsexual day to day than it is for the average woman. People don't look at women as freaks in the same way and the average woman is going to turn very few head while out and about.

I don't know what the solution to some of the difficult bathroom issues is, but I know it must be horrific to genuinely believe that you're in the wrong body and be reviled by both sexes.

Sometimes he's a real arse, sometimes he's really good.

As are most people, I would think.

Cant stand the bullying, belittling pig. I turn the radio off as soon as he comes on.

Somedyke not sure what you are talking about but clearly you do so feel no need to explain. Not a very easy or inclusive way of having a conversation.
I really struggle to understand the lack of empathy for people who feel they are born in to the wrong body (regardless what you think the cause of that feeling may be).
Boys and girls are so vulnerable. Both.

Ruth I have almost never posted on these threads because you know you won’t get anywhere but I can’t be the only one who feels like this- and nor can you.

Indeed!

Do people here realise how much the rate of adolescent referrals for female to male gender identity referrals are going up at the moment?

FarFrom of course I do, and if I were a teenager, or in my twenties, i would probably be doing exactly the same.

Being a young woman now, and especially a young gender nonconforming woman, and especially a lesbian, is to be at the very bottom of the pecking order.

In the LGBT+ communities, and especially in the parts that identify as "queer", being a lesbian is not just at the bottom of the pecking order, it is regarded as tantamount to being untrustworthy, a bigot, suspect. Whereas being trans is regarded as forward-thinking, brave, all the good things. Identifying as nonbinary or trans is a teflon coating for young men who want to behave badly, and it's a measure of protection for young women who don't want to be punished for being young women.

I don't blame any young woman one bit for identifying out of womanhood as quick as they can.

There are many societal pressures which might contribute to an adolescent or preadolescent feeling as though there is something fundamentally wrong with their body.

Should we try to understand and reduce those pressures, or should we allow them free rein whilst encouraging the young people affected by them to make drastic and irreversible changes to their otherwise healthy bodies?

Is the latter genuinely the more empathetic approach?

No trans people have been murdered in the UK because they were trans.
2 or 3 women a week are murdered in the UK because they were women.
Women are not protected by hate crime legislation, trans people are.

'They have it harder than women' does not stand up to scrutiny.

The TRA movement exists so middle class, straight men can claim they are oppressed by women and take those women's rights
This is ludicrous

Farfrom TRAs are different from trans people as a whole. The TRA movement is dominated by straight middle-class, middle-aged males, the great majority of whom are autogynephiles and who have sexual fetishes about invading women's spaces. They are nothing like the vulnerable teenagers whom you mention. In fact, they are vile to trans people with actual gender dysphoria and call them tru-scum.

Perhaps you don't know as much about trans activism as you think you do? You are naively falling for the "But what about the vulnerable kids" line which TRAs use so successfully as a Trojan horse to argue against safe spaces for women.

Everyone on here would agree that people with gender dysphoria are vulnerable and need to be kept safe. But that won't be achieved by erasing single sex spaces and eroding women's rights.

It must be horrific to genuinely believe that you're in the wrong body and be reviled by both sexes.

I agree with that. These people - formerly known as transsexuals - have been using female changing rooms / bathrooms and nobody cared really.
The problem is that now this is not what trans means. The trans umbrella includes everyone, all you need to do is say you are trans. Travis of Topshop fame has specifically said in an interview that he doesn't identify as a woman. Why should he change in the women's changing room then?

People will always pity the least privileged and I think that's a hard pill for a lot of feminists to swallow.

Women do not have privilege over men by virtue of them being women and men.

I would agree with Selma's post there, and add that I'm sure I have shared toilets and probably changing rooms with transsexuals before and not had a problem with that. I know they're targets for harassment and violence for some people (largely men, let's not kid ourselves), I know how vicious people (again...) can be about enforcing gender conformity, I've never begrudged trans people or anyone else getting to feel safe.

But. Saying that there shouldn't even be single-sex changing rooms, because everything's fine and women are totally safe and never get harassed by anybody? And shouting down women who disagree? That's not helping keep anybody safe. That's just shitty, entitled male behaviour. And it's impossible not to notice how many right-on, lefty-type men are 'standing up for trans people' by yelling at and insulting women, feminists in particular. Man screaming abuse at trans person going about their everyday business? Meh, don't talk about it. Woman and teenage girls saying "I don't feel safe changing in front of men"? BURN THE HATEFUL WITCH. It's repellent.

He's always had a smart arse delivery.

Just one thing: It’s not a contest. It’s not the oppression olympics. There’s no prize worth having anyway.

Unbridled Ruth, the point is they don't have to chop off their dicks. They can "self identify". No medical treatment required.

DJ BS

Comparing trans people to the whole of the female gender makes it a difficult comparison. 2-3 women may be killed a week but how many more millions of women are there than trans people? There’s also the fact that “women” is a huge bracket encompassing many people and many vastly different situations - part of why I dislike the umbrella approach used by a lot of modern feminists.

I still maintain that the average trans person will have a harder time in public than the average women in the UK (especially privileged middle class women who so often seem to be the feminists I encounter).

Rosa,

Still, do you think many men would really go through that hassle just to take privilege away from women? Most men I meet are oblivious to all this identity politics and just go about their daily lives providing for their families.