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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

James O'Brien: what a twat

385 replies

SelmaAndJubjub · 14/11/2017 20:39

Explained in this link. Basically, he bullied and shut down a female caller who said she'd be frightened to share a changing room with men. He didn't just take an opposing view - he ridiculed her.

Yet another liberal bro reveals himself as a misogynist. And a stupid one. Even if he doesn't care about women in general, he has 2 pre-teen daughters. Will he really want them changing and showering with men?

OP posts:
DN4GeekinDerby · 15/11/2017 21:30

Not really Unbridled. No movement for change has ever had a majority actively working for or identifying themselves with it. People have always fought to maintain the status quo, people have always blamed the oppressed for their position within society.

As someone who is American, I find the thing about the draft argument a red herring before we get into this story being British story so bringing the US into is grasping at straws. No one in my generation has ever been drafted, those who have been don't blame women for it, the selective service system was not put in place nor is its continued presence maintained by women. This system was put in place by rich men to bring in poor men for slaughter, they do that better now by promising health care and education. If men organized to get the requirement removed, it likely would, but then what would they have to beat feminists and young women with? Women fought for many things, including sex separated facilities because we were being attacked regularly in public, including facilities to help domestic violence victims and refugees and those who are suicidal. My local women's centre which is fighting for funding and only open two days a week due to this is still helping a local men maintain their low-cost counseling services because without them there would be none at all.

Right wing women are not an entirely different species from left. I come from the Bible Belt, I know women who voted for Trump who hate my existence and would tell me I deserve to burn in Hell forever if I wasn't already shunned by them, I know women in the UK who voted UKIP (I live in one of few areas that still has UKIP councillors) and love to tell my immigrant self how we're ruining everything and they hope I get kicked out and I still have more in common with them than I do many of the left wing men and women who also regularly throw those they dislike under the bus. I certainly have more in common with a right wing woman who fights for single sex facilities than the left wing ones who like to tell my feminine son that he can "grow up to be a woman" and tell him he's wrong to get upset about not being seen as the boy he is, I have more in common with the UKIP right wing parent who agrees with me that boys who sexually harass girls should be restricted from the park than the left wing one who wanted to blame everyone but the significantly older boys who made porn-inspired sexual remarks threatening girls as young as 7, some of whom were attacked. Girls who were attacked because of what those boys thought of girls and their bodies, just as women are (and I don't know where you are Ruth, but everyone I've been, women have been attacked and treated like freaks, attackers who feel we should be responsible for their views on our sex). It's not how we identify, it's what we do and who we protect and who we fight for.

Just as women and disabled people fought and continue to fight for facilities, dysphoric and sex role nonconforming people have been fighting for sex neutral preferably single stall facilities for decades. I remember it from many moons ago when I was an awkward guy-passing dysphoric teen. You can hear . The very recent push by a very loud few to just let everyone go in whatever sexed facilities won't help the most vulnerable, they will continue having difficulties and attacks while those who already can muscle in will cause harm and push to take up more and more space from those who can't risk fighting back. The people pushing for self-ID and such really don't need us to defend them.

cuirderussie · 15/11/2017 21:31

Proposed law change in Iraq to allow clerics to marry girls as young as nine
www.theguardian.com/global-development/2017/nov/14/catastrophic-iraq-law-could-legalise-marriage-for-children-as-young-as-nine

Similar law change in Turkey
www.google.ie/amp/www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/11/03/new-turkish-marriage-law-prompts-fears-child-weddings/amp/

Police fire tear gas at women protesting abortion laws in Brazil which will deny abortion even to rape victims
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5079181/Thousands-protest-proposal-total-abortion-ban-Brazil.html

That's just in the last fucking MONTH.

But yeah, poor men.

FarFrom · 15/11/2017 21:51

Interesting post dn- but are you not interested in hearing the take and experience of the new generation who feel something different about their way of not fitting in? They are no doubt in pain too- even if their solution may not seem right to you.

Cuird- that is all horrific - really awful- and the little boys are more at risk of becoming child soldiers- also horrific. This is also about global inequality.

We don’t have to limit our empathy to only one group.

cuirderussie · 15/11/2017 21:57

Oh fuck off.

FarFrom · 15/11/2017 22:05

Cuird- thanks! I promise you little boys also get hurt. Fuck off to boy soldiers seems pretty grim as a response and even to the little boys who are more likely to be hit, hurt and murdered by their parents than little girls are. But I don’t know why you wrote that. And again that doesn’t mean o don’t recognise the shit that little girls and women face.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 15/11/2017 22:07

far

Girls are also child soldiers

they constitute up to 40% of all child soldiers in some African contexts?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 15/11/2017 22:08

far

Are you a chugger in real life ...its just that Fuck off to boy soldiers seems pretty grim is just the technique those chunts use

UnbridledRuth · 15/11/2017 22:11

53rd

I struggle to name many people that would identify as prominent MRA's, but that's partly because the term has been altered to have negative connotations and also because I don't read much online tbh.

Rio Ferdinand and his documentary about losing his wife/fatherhood is perhaps a good example of a male figure contributing to men's rights by combatting the 'boys don't cry' mentality and the people responsible for the current 'Be in your mate's corner' campaign.

I don't want to say too much as it would likely reveal my identity on here but I work with a charity where a large proportion of the service users are homeless. At least 90% are male and that probably makes me slightly biased / is responsible for my strong reactions to the frequent discussion of male CEO's and board members etc. That's the last thing on our service users minds.

ShoesHaveSouls · 15/11/2017 22:12

"fuck off to boy soldiers" - said no feminist ever.

Who makes them soldiers? Who enlists/forces them? (clue: it's not feminists, it's highly unlikely to even be females).

FarFrom · 15/11/2017 22:15

Rufus- I can believe it but am interested in where your statistic comes from because i haven’t heard it. I feel I am globally privileged as a British white woman. That doesn’t take away from the fact that women in the UK still struggle, are more likely to be assaulted and earn less.

It also doesn’t take away from the plight of many boys.

UnbridledRuth · 15/11/2017 22:15

Technically I'm an MRA.

Xenophile · 15/11/2017 22:15

Goodness, all those words and so very little truth in them. You need to up your game FarFrom.

Xenophile · 15/11/2017 22:16

Ruth, there's nothing technical about it at all. You're MRA in tooth and claw. Paul Elam must be proud of you.

FarFrom · 15/11/2017 22:17

Xenophile- what do you mean? Do you want studies? I can give you them?

ShoesHaveSouls · 15/11/2017 22:18

Right, xenophile, there's no 'technically' about it, Ruth. Your points on this thread are straight off (I mean, practically c&p) off AVFM website.

You can deny it all you like, but we see you.

UnbridledRuth · 15/11/2017 22:18

Ok, if you say so, Xenophile...

UnbridledRuth · 15/11/2017 22:20

At least I'm actually doing something. A lot of people seem to think that griping online is an honourable pursuit when it does little to actually help those at the pointy end.

FarFrom · 15/11/2017 22:22

Sorry rufus my response was before you asked me if I was a chugger?!

I’m not. But ‘chuggers’ are often young people trying to make some money- also shouldn’t be villified.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 15/11/2017 22:22

Im not the best at links far

But loads come up if you google Girl child soldiers

I have read a few articles previously, its another example of female 'activity' being hidden

Its like this fact

women make up a large part of agricultural labor: In Sub-Saharan Africa in 2015, they represented 40 % of the agricultural labor force. In some developing countries, their contributions exceed 50%.

Virtually ignored

ShoesHaveSouls · 15/11/2017 22:22

Feminists killing Erin Pizzey's dog due to her suggesting that women can be as violent as men.

You posted that ^ Ruth - it's straight off online how-to-be-an-MRA sites. You know, we know it.

Maybe try to have your own thoughts next time?

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 15/11/2017 22:24

far

Chuggers make a good wage for themselves

And some of the absolutely use some shitty tactics to sign people up

Your twisting of cruids words were a perfect example of a chugger in action

UnbridledRuth · 15/11/2017 22:24

I agree with some of the points MRAs make. The difference is that many only use them as a beating stick against women, just as many feminists use statistics to berate men and don't actually do anything more.

Homelessness is a male problem often brought up by MRAs. I think it's a real issue and I'm trying to make my own small contribution. It doesn't trump women's issues, but neither should it be ignored.

Rufustherenegadereindeer1 · 15/11/2017 22:25

Some of them obviously

Grin
UnbridledRuth · 15/11/2017 22:26

And don't pretend that I couldn't find numerous feminists of the more misandrist variety who mention the same arguments that I frequently see on here...

RosaTheOwl · 15/11/2017 22:27

Ruth "A lot of people seem to think that griping online is an honourable pursuit when it does little to actually help those at the pointy end."

Why is it griping? It's been very useful in formulating responses to MPs and now I hear GRA is a being looked at more carefully?

Btw I'm not clear where you are based but I volunteer at a homeless shelter, it would be weird if we turn out to know each other.

You say no one will admit to being MRA. See the similarities between that and the stats you give on feminism.....