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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux

895 replies

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 00:16

Here's the link to thread one
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3033126-London-meeting-to-discuss-Gender-Identity-attacked-by-transactivists

I'm just going to sleep, if someone else can add the news links for me please? Thanks :)

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StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2017 10:29

Exactly Backingvocals. For a whole host of reasons a lot of people are turned off by the idea of being classed as a feminist, or hate feminists, or think feminists hate men, or . Long term I want that to change, of course. But short term we need more people hearing about, reading about and getting angry about this and that means we have to take it out of the feminist space. You don't need to be a feminist to understand or dislike this.

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2017 10:32

Imagine saying to a (straight) man that they are a bigoted bastard if they don't want to have sex with a fully intact penis because the owner identifies as female.

It just wouldn't happen, would it?

JAPAB · 18/09/2017 10:34

Probably inevitable something like this would happen. Those perceived as racist can get verbally or physically attacked, those perceived as homophobic the same, and no reason why you wouldn't also get this in the trans world against those perceived as transphobic.

Nothing justifies it and now the actions of these physical assaulters will be taken as representative in some way. So they haven't done their side any favours.

hackmum · 18/09/2017 10:37

I see someone has written on that Digital Spy discussion: "It looks to me like a bunch of men in dresses attacked an entirely peaceful feminist rally. Worse, they followed them round the place in order to be offended and attack them."

That is exactly right. Am so fed up of people talking about there being two sides, each as bad as the other, etc. The only reason the transactivists knew the women were gathering is because they were actually invited to the debate in the first place! How very unreasonable of the feminists to invite their opponents. Then they forced the venue to cancel the debate, then they went to the place the women were meeting and started shouting abuse at them, before physically attacking one of them. How come the women are getting half the blame?

And obviously the term TERF is an insult. I agree with Backing, it needs to be replaced by "women". Most women who are worried about this new bill are not radical feminists, they are just feminists. And you don't even need to be a feminist to be worried by the implications - you just need to be a woman who doesn't want to share your changing room space with a man.

BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 10:37

Exactly Japab. You'd think that alone would make people like Pink News condemn it though, wouldn't you. Confused

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BeyondNoone · 18/09/2017 10:39

A lot of people seem to view it as a protest and counter protest that resulted in a fight, rather than some protestors protesting an event and attacking an attendee of that event who was filming their protest.

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Datun · 18/09/2017 10:41

hackmum

It seems to me that their motives are entirely nefarious and woman-hating. I can't think of an innocent explanation for why you would want to keep your penis but expect to be treated as a woman.

You've answered your own question.

The trans-narrative, by its nature is misogynistic. Pink brain/blue brain. If I feel like this, it must make me a woman. Because that is how women feel.

Unfortunately, a lot of the men who identify as trans are cross dressing fetishists. This fetish is the very definition of misogyny. They like to be submissive, used, weak and humiliated. See forced feminisation, cissification, etc. Because that's how they perceive women.

Whereas they may not be moved to violence, specifically, they have massively flavoured the narrative with the misogyny that we are now seeing.

It's like a dog whistle to violent, sexist men everywhere. And the pushing of the idea that women are inferior, goes into overdrive when those women stand up for themselves.

A microcosm of that would be street harassment. A cat caller will generally shout at a woman to make her feel uncomfortable, and if she turns round and tells him to fuck off he will come back ten fold. Usually with a whole bunch of gendered insults.

It's horribly manipulative, circular behaviour. Women are inferior, let's drive that point home. Then if they have the gall to defend themselves, they use all the weapons in their arsenal, the most effective which is violence.

Unfortunately, the trans-ideology now says a man has to do jack shit to present as a woman. He almost doesn't even have to say he is trans.

It's almost not even about trans anymore, that's just the label by which a whole host of violent men can justify their hatred of women, using and exploiting the narrative.

It's imperative that the ideology is scrutinised and untangled. We cannot enter an era where men are allowed to hijack gender dysphoria in order to access, silence and abuse women.

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2017 10:55

They must be doing so much harm to those who do have dysphoria too. I can well imagine that people who would previously have had no qualms about, for example, employing someone who is trans might actually think twice now if they are aware of these issues. I think they're going to make the prejudice against trans people worse.

Course half of the loudest ones are no doubt not identifying as women in the workplace...

busyboysmum · 18/09/2017 10:55

Anyone fancy roping in their husbands on Twitter to get involved? I'd like to see more men wading in on our side. My husband isn't on Twitter but I'm sure could be persuaded to join. Then spreads the word even more if their friends read and join in. They can't claim it's crazy rad fems because I don't think men can be rad fems can they?

SentientCushion · 18/09/2017 10:58

I don't agree that everyone with gender dysmorphia needs to have or want surgery otherwise they nefarious motives though. The surgery is incredibly painful and can go horribly wrong and lets face it still doesn't make you a woman, just a male with mutilated genitals. I don't think that people should have to mutilate themselves to be accepted.

I believe that there are people who genuinely feel trapped by their bodies and it must be awful. For those people I think they fall into two camps.

  1. people who are unable to express who they truly are because of societal expectations or fear of societies expectation or oppression of their sex.
  2. people who are body dysmorphic.

For neither of these is the answer to have surgery.

It would be awful to get into a situation where people were having to have surgery to prove they were serious about being transsexual or to be accepted.

I don't see anything wrong with what we have now where someone has to live as the opposite sex for two years and have therapy. It's this self identification crap that I have a problem with.

SentientCushion · 18/09/2017 11:00

I'm going to name change as it's just occurred to me that people might be using this thread to find terfs.

Lancelottie · 18/09/2017 11:00

I don't know how to wade in on this publicly without trampling on the (ever increasing) number of family friends who apparently have a trans FtM child.

One family stick lovely accepting videos of photogenic smiley young people up on Facebook all the time under taglines like 'NotaDebate'. Which is ironic, given the difficulties in actually having any kind of debate.

StatisticallyChallenged · 18/09/2017 11:02

I don't think everyone should have surgery either - I hope it didn't come across that way.

But what we do have to tackle is the common misconception that trans people are those who are massively dysphoric and have either had or are awaiting significant surgery because that's far from being the case. But when average Joe considers the issues, that's who they are imagining. Not this entitled generation of self identifiers

Datun · 18/09/2017 11:04

SentientCushion

I agree with all that. I don't care if someone wants to call themself a transwoman. Without doing anything. As long as it's understand that they're not actually women and don't get to have any of the rights, resources and spaces reserved for women.

Unfortunately, that will never happen. Because it is the rights, spaces and resources that they want.

Hence the outrage over suggesting they use gender neutral toilets, instead of the female loos.

I completely agree, it's throwing genuine sufferers of gender dysphoria under the bus. Which they said it would. And we agreed.

Although I thought that this would all happen, I didn't think for one minute, that it would be quite as violent, blatant and swift.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 18/09/2017 11:45

It's almost not even about trans anymore, that's just the label by which a whole host of violent men can justify their hatred of women, using and exploiting the narrative

I think you've nailed it.

Gingernaut · 18/09/2017 11:51

This has just appeared in my Faceache timeline.

I feel it's important, but have no idea whether I can stand the stress or what to say...Confused

Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux
Datun · 18/09/2017 12:00

Gingernaut

Where's it being held? Do you have a link?

Gingernaut · 18/09/2017 12:01

Just looking for you....

Gingernaut · 18/09/2017 12:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Gingernaut · 18/09/2017 12:05

Sorry the links show personal details. Confused

JigglyTuff · 18/09/2017 12:06

Ironically this week's women's hour 15 minute drama is 'Just A Girl' about a girl who was 'born in the wrong body'.

On the home page, it says: "Thanks to Susie Green and the parents at Mermaids and the Tavistock Clinic."

In today's episode, Amy (formerly Ben, and incidentally played by a female actor) is chosen for a part in West Side Story over her friend. Someone at school has questioned what toilets and changing rooms Amy used and Amy's parents are furious at their bigotry.

No questioning, no challenging is allowed.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 18/09/2017 12:07

^ I can't see any personal detals?

NYConcreteJungle · 18/09/2017 12:10

No questioning, no challenging is allowed.

Who wrote and commissioned it?

Gingernaut · 18/09/2017 12:11

Try these screen captures

Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux
Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux
Woman attacked by transactivists at speakers corner - part deux
JigglyTuff · 18/09/2017 12:12

I don't know who commissioned it - it's written by Mark Davies Markham. This is the 3rd series. It's followed Amy all the way through the transition process which started when Amy was in primary school

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