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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***

493 replies

CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 07:54

I am Jazz is a reality show focusing on the journey of a teenage transgirl/woman whos parents supported transition from aged 5 and has been on TV since aged 6.
Now aged 16.

I don't watch the show as I strongly disagree with everything about it. However I briefly saw a clip of the next episode as the tv happened to be on the channel that airs I am Jazz I had been watching say yes to the dress and it was about dating.

Jazz goes to a sort of speed dating event where everyone is sat in the dark. Jazz wants a relationship, which is normal for a teenager however Jazz does not tell the boys/men that they are trans and in fact male.
As they are in darkness Jazz feels that if they get to know each other without the barrier of seeing each other/being trans it may lead to a relationship.

For me this is totally wrong.
Why should it be ok for Jazz or anyone to withold the truth about a very important aspect of who they are?
Plus I would imagine there to be some very upset and angry teenage boys when they find out they have been duped and lied to.

I remember a good few years ago where a man killed his partner after finding out on a TV show that they were trans. There have been a few similar murders over the years.
I am in no way condoning the murder or harm of another person I am just highlighting the danger that can come if you lie about the sex you are and it should not be encouraged as no relationship can survive on lies.

I just wondered what other peoples thoughts are on the subject of lying about your sex to the people you date?

OP posts:
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honeysucklejasmine · 03/08/2017 07:58

A woman was jailed recently for pretending to be a man so she could sleep with a woman.

MizK · 03/08/2017 08:00

My concern would be that this show sounds exploitative both of Jazz and the other participants. I can totally see why she would want to have the opportunity to be judged on personality - lots of people must be able to empathise on this.
But it's not going to change anything. You are either open to dating somebody trans or not, and as soon as they meet face to face it will be game over. Which I'm sure will be very painful for Jazz. 16 is too young to be going through rejection on screen.

In terms of lying about your sex in general? I have never met a trans person who is not clockable. I would be surprised if this is something that people regularly do with any success.

Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 08:05

Honey yes I remember that case was quite recent.

Miz the show is exploitive 100%. I agree and probably didnt make my point clear that if Jazz is rejected once they tell the truth it would cause distress and potentially very damaging to MH/self esteem. Why would you encourage your child to do something that runs a great risk of that happening?

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Identifiesaspissedoff · 03/08/2017 08:09

Why on earth would anybody think this type of TV show was a good idea? After all 'something about Miriam' worked out so well didn't it HmmConfused

Datun · 03/08/2017 08:12

In terms of lying about your sex in general? I have never met a trans person who is not clockable.

I agree. But you'd never know with Jazz, certainly not at first.

That's part of it. The desperation to pass, leads older transwomen to encourage youngsters to transition prepuberty. If it gains ground, there will be more like Jazz.

The reaction to finding out that someone is trans has been coined 'trans panic'.

I'm sure there are lots of transwomen who are completely upfront about their status, like curry on here ( I think it was curry).

But the cohort who think lesbians should sleep them are the ones who think it's fine to hide it.

The narrative being that if you get to know somebody, are attracted to them, like them and then find out they're trans and you change your mind, it's transphobic, because it's specifically about them being trans.

Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 08:53

because it's specifically about them being trans.

Of course it is and that should be accepted.Not met with abuse. It is also about being lied to in a huge way. This is not pretending to be a natural blonde when it is in fact thanks to vidal sassoon that your brown hair is no more. This is starting a relationship based on the lie that you are biologically male/female.

Everyone has the right to start and end relationships under their own terms . However if you start a relationship based on a lie or untold truth then you need to accept it may end and the person who was i the dark will be angry and upset.

It is never ok to bully or abuse a person to submit to what you think they should want and do.

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Datun · 03/08/2017 09:03

CosmicPineapple

I completely agree. I think it's very manipulative. Because it's several reasons. One, they are the opposite sex to that which you were expecting and two, they are being disingenuous at best and dishonest at worst.

Furthermore, being trans is considered a delusional state by many. You should absolutely be able to reject someone on the basis that you think they're delusional.

Thelilywhite · 03/08/2017 09:10

Its a lie. End of story. I wouldnt want to start a relationship with someone who was untruthful about such a fundamental part of themselves. Even if I was initially attracted to them.

Soubriquet · 03/08/2017 09:13

Is this them?

Not immediately obvious is it. I agree it's wrong. It's deceiving the person and I would feel betrayed if someone I really liked suddenly told me they were trans...or worse discovering it myself as we DTD

I am Jazz. ***Trans content. Please do not open if you just want to post insults or whinge about another trans thread***
Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 09:21

Soub yes that is Jazz.

The clip I saw yesterday of the show I could tell Jazz was trans. I cant explain why as such and maybe it is because I know they are trans but there was something about their features, shoulders,body shape.....i am not sure if I am honest.

OP posts:
splendide · 03/08/2017 09:25

There are plenty of transwomen who pass.

Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 09:34

I would imagine there is Splend and the younger they transition the more passable they are. But that takes us to the question of is it right to allow children to make life changing choices which they can not undo?

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EachandEveryone · 03/08/2017 09:42

As usual with these shows about children transitioning the parents are throughly encouraging it. They must pick them that way. I watched it in the beginning and it was her siblings that were really upset by it.

Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 09:50

I watched it in the beginning and it was her siblings that were really upset by it.

Children are very honest and very literal and they of course their brother suddenly becoming their sister is alot to ask of them.

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Datun · 03/08/2017 09:59

Especially as, since Jazz is sterile, she has blithely asserted that she can use one of her sisters as a surrogate.

NauticalDisaster · 03/08/2017 10:01

No male privilege there, eh, Datun?

Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 10:11

she has blithely asserted that she can use one of her sisters as a surrogate.

Crikey!!! You cant just decide to put that on a sibling. What kind of pressure must the sister be under where her body atonomy is put under public gaze Shock
If she refuses will the public then turn on her in support of Jazz?

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Datun · 03/08/2017 10:14

CosmicPineapple

Are the siblings still in the show? The sibling dynamic can be notoriously adversarial. Especially if one of them gets all the attention.

I can't imagine how awful it must be, to be honest, to have your entire family life played out on television, and having to put a positive spin on everything.

It's like a twisted version of a golden handcuff deal.

Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 10:41

No idea Datun i have not watched it and have only seen a couple of clips to advertise it.

I dont like reality shows that involve children but for me this poor child because their lufe is in the public eye can never taje back what tgey have done should tgey want to.

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Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 10:42

Shocking typos sorry Blush

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MaisyPops · 03/08/2017 10:49

I saw it. How many people who are jumping to 'omg she is so deceitful and dishonest' actually saw the show?

Jazz said that she was going to get to know someone during the speed dating thing and then IF there was a connection (where her and the guy would both have to say yes) and they met in the light then she would disclose that she is trans.
So she only had about a 15 mins chat not saying "hi I'm trans". As soon as her and one of the guests met in the light she said 'you need to know I'm trans'.

Her parents have a disclosure policy with her because of the risk associated with dating when trans.

I'm not a fan of sticking children on hormone blockers just because, but this thread is in danger of getting ridiculously angry over nothing (based on people having not actually watched it).

EmpressoftheMundane · 03/08/2017 10:50

On a completely superficial note, I come from a family of women with curvy hips. Completely out of fashion since the 1990s. You can fake boobs, but not hips. Maybe the tyranny of snake hips in fashion is about to end.

Original poster
CosmicPineapple · 03/08/2017 11:28

Maisy not one poster is ridiculously angry Confused

The fact that Jazz told them later that they were trans does not take away from the fact they allowed these boys to believe they were talking to a biological female. That then blows the initial attraction out the water and is massively unfair on the person who was not informed of the full facts and Jazz who may then need to deal with rejection because she is trans.

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Datun · 03/08/2017 11:30

MaisyPops

Actually, that is part of the problem I have with it. The normalisation of it. It's a reality TV show. Jazz is an empathetic character. Her situation draws sympathy and celebration, in equal measure.

But viewers are being shown 'spin'. That's not to say there isn't any element of authenticity to what they are allowing viewers to see.

I've mentioned this on another thread, but it's worth repeating.

Jazz is a 17 year old genetic male, with the face of a girl, the body of a woman, generated by artificial hormones, and the genitals of a prepubescent boy.

Jazz been told there is not enough penal material to create a neovagina. The head of the penis is positioned to mimic the clitoris. But there is not enough material. Because Jazz was knowingly put on puberty blockers. Jazz was surprised. Why didn't he know?

Jazz has no libido and will never achieve an orgasm. If Jazz decides to have a neovagina, they will have to use skin from other parts of the body, traditionally the colon. Jazz will have to dilate this vagina regularly for the rest of their life, otherwise it will close up.

Jazz will have to be on hormones for the rest of their life. They are permanently sterile and have no sexual function or libido.

Jazz has suffered from depression.

The parents maintain this is Jazz's decision. And they made it when they were 11 years old.

That is Jazz. Unspun.

Datun · 03/08/2017 11:31

Sorry, I meant to add that any potential partner should absolutely be told this upfront. Can you imagine the guilt trip laid on someone who then turns jazz down? On air?